Some of us prefer non-fiction, but as works of fiction go, I agree, the bible is a pretty good choice. Even though parts of it are badly written, and most of the characters in the stories aren't particularly well developed (writers like Homer and Sophocles had much more finely honed literary skills), and the work suffers from internal inconsistencies, the bible should be considered part of the Canon and useful for study. One should just make not to rely on it too much.

I would have to disagree with your opinion of the Bible.

I would ask you to give me proof that the Bible is a work of fiction. The Bible has been for many years the best seller on the non-friction book seller's list and it  has out printed and out lived (in its different translations and languages) any other book on the market. It is one of few books that men have lived by and died for the right to own a copy. In fact in many countries of the world today folks still giving their lives to own a copy, others are spending years in jail because of those who seek to destroy the book and their faith.

English history tells us that the Bible was burn in England and people died at the stake for having a copy and the more that kings tried to suppress it the fast it spread.

Like I said earlier my Newf. and I have read it for a good many years now and we have yet to discover the errors that some folks keep claiming are to be found there in.

I am not a scholar of Literature or history  but I am told that there is more prove in history for the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ than there is the for authenticity of either William Shakespeare, or Socrates.

I also note that the free peoples of the of the world live in those countries which have based their laws on the 10 Commandments, Canada being one of those nations which once based their laws on the Bible. As our government has turned to secularism and humanism most Canadian have witnessed the fall of our nation morally. If the 10 Commandments gave us nothing else, they gave us a basis for law and order which was worth pinning them in the halls of justice and using as a foundation for the laws of our country.  

 A friend sent me these few thoughts which I pass on to you: "The reasons people give for not believing God often boil down to something they want God to do to prove Himself. Sadly, in making a "to do" lists for God, we miss seeing the countless things He has already done.

Even people who lived near Jesus and who witnessed His miracles asked for more proof. Comparing Jesus to Moses, they asked, "What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? . . . Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ?He gave them bread from heaven to eat'" (John 6:30-31).

Even in the bible times they wanted PROOF. Even with Jesus standing right in front of them. There is NOTHING anyone can show you to prove anything. Unless you WANT to believe through faith, you won't. Nothing anyone can show you would be good enough. Think about that, Amisk."

You can seek a sign that Christianity is correct. You can call the Bible fiction if you like but that doesn't belittle its claim or message. There will come a day when you will realize that you were wrong. Then you will know you have missed the best of what is to come and remember that you could have had better in this world but you where too busy condemning the truth of the scriptures.

 I can take Christianity seriously and if I come to the end of life and find that I was wrong, I will have lost nothing for having believed  the Bible, other than escaping the messed up lives I so often see family and friends living in. On the other hand, if the Bible is correct I will have gained Heaven.

My prayers are with you.  

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 we have yet to discover the errors that some folks keep claiming are to be found there in.

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 Here's a great big list! Oh...don't thank me.....I am more than happy to oblige anyone who asks this same question.

So.....what 'moved' you exactly to post here?......I hope you feel better now!

If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?

Theological doctrines:

     1. God is satisfied with his works
         Gen 1:31
        God is dissatisfied with his works. 
         Gen 6:6
     2. God dwells in chosen temples
         2 Chron 7:12,16
        God dwells not in temples
         Acts 7:48
     3. God dwells in light
         Tim 6:16
        God dwells in darkness
         1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
     4. God is seen and heard
         Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
          Ex 24:9-11
        God is invisible and cannot be heard
         John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
     5. God is tired and rests
         Ex 31:17
        God is never tired and never rests
         Is 40:28
     6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
         Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
        God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all     
        things
         Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
     7. God knows the hearts of men
         Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
        God tries men to find out what is in their heart
         Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
     8. God is all powerful
         Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
       God is not all powerful
         Judg 1:19
     9. God is unchangeable
         James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
        God is changeable
         Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
          Ex 33:1,3,17,14
     10. God is just and impartial
          Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
         God is unjust and partial
          Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
     11. God is the author of evil
          Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
         God is not the author of evil
          1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
     12. God gives freely to those who ask
          James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
         God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving   
         them
          John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
     13. God is to be found by those who seek him
          Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
         God is not to be found by those who seek him
          Prov 1:28
     14. God is warlike
          Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
         God is peaceful
          Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
     15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
          Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
         God is kind, merciful, and good
          James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/ 
           1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
     16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
          Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
         God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
          Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
     17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,  
         sacrifices ,and holy days
          Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
         God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,   
         sacrifices, and holy days.
          Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
     18. God accepts human sacrifices
          2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
         God forbids human sacrifice
          Deut 12:30,31
     19. God tempts men
          Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
         God tempts no man
          James 1:13
     20. God cannot lie
          Heb 6:18
         God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
          2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
     21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
          Gen 6:5,7
         Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
          Gen 8:21
     22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
          Rom 1:20
         God's attributes cannot be discovered
          Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
     23. There is but one God
          Deut 6:4
         There is a plurality of gods
          Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
 

to be continued....

page 2

Moral Precepts

     24. Robbery commanded
          Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
         Robbery forbidden
          Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
     25. Lying approved and sanctioned
          Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
         Lying forbidden
          Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
     26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
          2 Kings 14:7,3
         Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
          Deut 23:7
     27. Killing commanded
          Ex 32:27
         Killing forbidden
          Ex 20:13
     28. The blood-shedder must die
          Gen 9:5,6
         The blood-shedder must not die
          Gen 4:15
     29. The making of images forbidden
           Ex 20:4
         The making of images commanded
          Ex 25:18,20
     30. Slavery and oppression ordained
          Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
         Slavery and oppression forbidden
          Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
     31. Improvidence enjoyed
          Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
         Improvidence condemned
          1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
     32. Anger approved
          Eph 4:26
         Anger disapproved
          Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
     33. Good works to be seen of men
          Matt 5:16
         Good works not to be seen of men
          Matt 6:1
     34. Judging of others forbidden
          Matt 7:1,2
         Judging of others approved
          1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
      35. Christ taught non-resistance
          Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
         Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
          Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
     36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
          Luke 12:4
         Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
          John 7:1
     37. Public prayer sanctioned
          1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
         Public prayer disapproved
          Matt 6:5,6
     38. Importunity in prayer commended
          Luke 18:5,7
         Importunity in prayer condemned
          Matt 6:7,8
     39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
          Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
         The wearing of long hair by men condemned
          1 Cor 11:14
     40. Circumcision instituted
          Gen 17:10
         Circumcision condemned
          Gal 5:2
     41. The Sabbath instituted
          Ex 20:8
         The Sabbath repudiated
          Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
     42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
          Ex 20:11
         The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites    
         out of Egypt
          Deut 5:15
     43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
          Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
         Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in 
         the same
          John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
     44. Baptism commanded
          Matt 28:19
         Baptism not commanded
          1 Cor 1:17,14
     45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
          Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
         Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
          Deut 14:7,8
      46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
          Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
         Taking of oaths forbidden
          Matt 5:34
     47. Marriage approved
          Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
         Marriage disapproved
          1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
     48. Freedom of divorce permitted
          Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
         Divorce restricted
          Matt 5:32
     49. Adultery forbidden
          Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
         Adultery allowed
          Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
     50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
          Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
         Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
          Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
     51. A man may marry his brother's widow
          Deut 25:5
         A man may not marry his brother's widow
          Lev 20:21
     52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
          Luke 14:26
         Hatred to kindred condemned
          Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
     53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
          Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
         Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
          Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
     54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers   
         and punish evil doers only
          Rom 13:1-3,6
         It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the  
         good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
          Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
           Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
     55. Women's rights denied
          Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
         Women's rights affirmed
          Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
     56. Obedience to masters enjoined
          Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
         Obedience due to God only
          Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
     57. There is an unpardonable sin
          Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
          Acts 13:39

and so on....

I and my father are one.
     - John 10:30

     ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
     - John 14:28
     [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]
   

you like this page you might also like Contradictions of the Gospel and this List of Biblical Contradictions at www.infidels.org

Jesus Lied About Prayer

    Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it.  He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it.  This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer.  Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away.  Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house.  He could make a lot of converts that way.  If I'm converted today, I'll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to kissing God's ass.  If I'm not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.

    Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:

    1)  And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."  (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

    2)  Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

    3)  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

    4)  Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

    5)  And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

    6)  And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14 NAB)

    7)  If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7 NAB)

    8)  It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16 NAB)

    9)  On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.  (John 16:23-24 NAB)

    A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible.  They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else.  If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers.  He says God will grant all your prayers.  Clearly, God doesn't grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.

Also see my web page End Times about the many lies that Jesus told about the second coming of God.

Happy reading...

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I also note that the free peoples of the of the world live in those countries which have based their laws on the 10 Commandments, Canada being one of those nations which once based their laws on the Bible. As our government has turned to secularism and humanism most Canadian have witnessed the fall of our nation morally. If the 10 Commandments gave us nothing else, they gave us a basis for law and order which was worth pinning them in the halls of justice and using as a foundation for the laws of our country.

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Not quite. Canada has never had laws forbidding the making of graven images, nor has the taking of the "lord's" name ever been proscribed. The Sabbath rest was never in our law books, for a while there were Sunday laws, but the biblical, 10 commandment Sabbath has never been law in Canada; Honouring fathers and mothers has never been part of the legal system; nor was adultery a crime; While the Criminal Code outlaws theft, our entirely legal system is based on the unilateral assertion of sovereignty by the British Crown over these lands, which was essentially theft from the natives; "coveting" has never been outlawed in Canada either.

The only ones of the ten commandments ever to have found its way into our law books were:

(a) the proscription against murder;

(b) the prohibition against theft;

(c) a prohibition against perjury (but no general law against lying)

The 10 commandments has never been the basis of any western legal system, and Christians who falsely make this assertion are violating the commandment against bearing false witness. So you better repent or I'll see you in hell.

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I am not a scholar of Literature or history but I am told that there is more prove in history for the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ than there is the for authenticity of either William Shakespeare, or Socrates.

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You've been fed false information then.

And in any event, remember that Shakespeare's dramas stand on their own whether or not Shakespeare wrote them, whether or not they were forgeries, or whether or not they fell from the sky. They are all works of fiction, none of which make any claims of truth.

As for Socrates, the worth of his alleged teachings are not dependant on the truth of the Socrates legends.

But with JC, the issue is different; because it is not his message that Christians promote, but the man. Or to put it another way, the man is the message. As far as studying, debating or considering the ethics propounded in the New Testament, the truth of the Christ legend is irrelevant, which is why these writings are still useful and instructive. But Christians distort the message by confusing it with the man.

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The Newf. (my wife) and I read the Bible regularly. We find it to offer good advice and we recommend it to all. It is encouraging, wise and authoritative in its understanding of the very nature of mankind.It seems to me that one can not truthfully judge its worth without having studied its message.

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You've been fed false information then.And in any event, remember thatShakespeare's dramas stand on their own whether or not Shakespeare wrote them, whether or not they were forgeries, or whether or not they fell from the sky. They are all works of fiction, none of which make any claims of truth.As for Socrates, the worth of his alleged teachings are not dependant on the truth of the Socrates legends.But with JC, the issue is different; because it is not his message that Christians promote, but  the man. Or to put it another way, the man is the message. As far as studying, debating or considering the ethics propounded in the New Testament, the truth of the Christ legend is irrelevant, which is why these writings are still useful and instructive. But Christians distort the message by confusing it with the man.

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As far as studying, debating or considering the ethics propounded in the New Testament, the truth of the Christ legend is irrelevant, which is why these writings are still useful and instructive. But Christians distort the message by confusing it with the man.

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I don't agree ....but you'd expect that wouldn't you...

Perhaps you'd like to own that.....and say..."which is why I find these writings are still useful and instructive'.....

.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 JC the man is not mentioned anywhere  but in the bible . Also the man referred to as JC hardly exists within the bible?..Lots about a dude called Paul thou'.. wouldn't it be simplier to go straight to mythology /ancient folklore for similar "messages'? To me the basic 'message' of the bible is confusion generally. JC is the messiah?...I would agree thou' that christianity has evolved away from the bible. ie. the trinity. etc.

yawns ......a baby troll alert.

Let me start by answering your question as to how I ended up here. It is quite simple. Some one from this site threw out an open invitation, the only condition being that one should be seeking to walk away from Fundamentalism, on Christian Forum that I was corresponding on. Well, I thought I might like to throw in a few questions and comments from the side of a Christian who believes the Bible to be the divinely inspired inerrant, infallible and an entirely trustworthy word of a loving God. Maybe I might change my opinion if you had some good proof as why I should desert what I have come to believe. It doesn't look like you have much to offer.

It kind of appears like I landed on both feet in the midst of hostile den of wolves. Well, I shall stay a while and see where the conversation goes from here.

Your attack on the Bible has its problems. I can't hope to answer them all at this time but maybe I can deal with some of the others in future postings, if I am not tossed off this apparently one sided Forum be for I get there.

I would like to say at this point, that I believe that the Bible is the only source of authority on all the moral issues of life. I don't just believe that the Bible contains the Word of God, but as the Bible itself declares: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Moving on to some of what you have termed as contradiction etc. You start with Genesis 1:31 - "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." and: Genesis 6:6 - "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Genesis 1:31 is speaking of God in relationship to the creation of the earth. Everything was new, everything was sin free at that point, as God had planned it. When you reach Genesis 6:6 a lot has happened between 1:31 and 6:6. Most of which brought sorrow and regret to His heart. The number 1 thing was the fall of Adam and Eve. He had been forced to remove them from the Garden of Eden.

There is no problem here if you read the scripture through and understand what you are reading. Any parent having a baby come into the family looks at the baby as a good thing. It brings happiness and joy to their heart, however all that changes when at 18 or so the child becomes a murderer, a molester of children, etc. In a matter of speaking that is the difference between chapter 1 and chapter 6 of Genesis.

You can not just go through any book including the Bible and take things out of context different parts of the story, which is appears to have happened in much of what you have listed.

Because of lack space I will not comment further on the scriptures that you have listed, other than to encourage to read the full context of the verses and chapters and the books that you seem to be tar and feathering.

In his book "Understanding God's Truth" John Cunningham quotes: Dr. David L. Cooper's gem of wisdom for studying the Bible.

 "When the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other  sense; therefore take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual literal meaning unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise. If one follows this rule he can never go wrong. If he fails to follow this rule he can never go right."

And:

Dr. M.R. DeHaan put it this way:

John Cunningham, went on to say: "I will add to these yet another rule: One cannot interpret the Bible correctly unless he follows the Law of Progressive Revelation as found in the cannon of scriptures. All revealed truth for you and me is found in the 66 books of the Bible, God's inspired, inerrant, infallible Word to mankind."

These are valuable gems of wisdom when studying the Bible and no man can claim to understand the scriptures without them.

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I can take Christianity seriously and if I come to the end of life and find that I was wrong, I will have lost nothing for having believed  the Bible, other than escaping the messed up lives I so often see family and friends living in. On the other hand, if the Bible is correct I will have gained Heaven.

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So..your faith - your christianity, your 'belief' in the bible... comes down to nothing but a bet.....a wager?

&

so....you put yourself 'up' on a pedestal....above your family & friends? How does that fit in with 'christianity'? So you'd be okay with seeing your 'loved' ones burn - I gather it does occur to you that 'hell' is also part of the story.

you or should I say what you write above is my 'proof'...

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Maybe I might change my opinion if you had some good proof as why I should desert what I have come to believe. It doesn't look like you have much to offer.

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btw....thanks for the reply....let me say...It wasn't me.

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Some one from this site threw out an open invitation, the only condition being that one should be seeking to walk away from Fundamentalism, on Christian Forum that I was corresponding on.

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okay...can you link me to that forum please?...I'd like to read it.

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Reply to : John_GaltAs far as studying, debating or considering the ethics propounded in the New Testament, the truth of the Christ legend is irrelevant, which is why these writings are still useful and instructive. But Christians distort the message by confusing it with the man.I don't agree ....but you'd expect that wouldn't you...Perhaps you'd like to own that.....and say..."which is why I find these writings are still useful and instructive'......yawns ......a baby troll alert.

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Woa dudette,

You have gone to some trouble and length to expose something that seems to totally vex you, may I ask wihy? I am new here and just reading some to the things that have been posted can really make one wonder just how far or "open minded" people think they are when they shut down on something that can prove to be beneficial in the long run. Books, especially those of the ancient manifests, can and have proven to add to the total concept of man and mankind. Why diss it so? Have you actually read the book? Did you simply copy and paste these questions from another source that is easily accessible? If you can't discuss a written piece of work from your own intellectual perspective, why bash it?

To quote you: "baby troll alert"......

Only I ain't no baby, just a  chic from California.....

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Woa dudette,

 If you can't discuss a written piece of work from your own intellectual perspective, why bash it?

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they are all your 'rules'....I don't follow them. if you think the bible is 'beneficial' to you in the short or long run....fine!.......groovy!

I don't think being so 'open minded that your brains fall out' is particularly a great thing.

'trouble' ...nah..its no trouble to paste...Vexed? that's your shit babe'....

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Books, especially those of the ancient manifests, can and have proven to add to the total concept of man and mankind. Why diss it so? Have you actually read the book?

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Hang on sista........we aren't talking about all books here..............just a certain kind of book which are generically called the 'bible'.

kinda puts it into perspective for me... - good isn't it....

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Well, Chic, I looked back over the Forums I thought I had picked it up on, (I happen to be on 3 on a fairly regular bases and two others now and then). The posting about this sight is no longer there. It is likely the editors checked it out and removed it after reading some of the comments.

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I have signed up on this forum because I was pointed to it by my friend Amisk who mentioned it on another forum. After having read the posts in this thread I can clearly see that except for Amisk and Goofy the other posters have a dislike of Scripture and Judeo-Christian teachings.

I myself have found that the best book I have ever read ( and by that i mean the book which brought a life changing experience to my life) has been The Bible. It was through reading the Scriptures that I discovered the loving saving power of Jesus Christ and over the last 34 years or so  have followed Jesus.

At the same time I have lived in this real world where life is not pretty. I have been faced with difficulties and health issues. I have worked in Jails for 20 odd years prior to retirement and have found that my Christian Faith has sustained me through it all and in many cases had given me an in to people that would not have been there otherwise.

We all have to make a leap of faith

Christians like Amisk, Goofy, myself and others do it with Jesus

Others take a leap of faith into the abyss of nothingness by trusting in no god or false gods.

Have a good day

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Others take a leap of faith into the abyss of nothingness by trusting in no god or false gods.

 

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ah....it occurred to me that you might like to read up on Existentialism ....its seems you are deeply aware of the fear & anxiety of being on your own in the world.......and it seems you use 'faith'  as your safety net. .........................."doing it with jesus' is quite a catch phrase!.....................(pun intended)

Well done! given a bit more time..you might well be reading ...Nietzsche

Superchic, you asked Amisk what caused him to write here. wellI am not sure how he found the forum but I found it because on another forum, which he and severakl others are trying to turn into a Fanatical Fundamentalist  Forum, he asked for help to come and evangelise this forum qoute:'I am in over my head. I know that there are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this forum who are better educated in these matters than I.
I was hoping that some of you would take a gander at the Forum and perhaps lend a hand.'

He did get offers of help like quote:'May be God has placed us there to reach a soul or two. '

I understand from one on the forum (I am still looking for her user name) you ,superchic, are her particular target because quote: 'Been a little while since I dealt with someone so full of hatred, '

I am sure you are quaking in your boots at their attempt to get you saved???

Thanks for the list of errors by the way. It confirms much of what i have always thought.

I am looking forwar to reading mor on here/

Bill

Sorry snakechic, i changed your name!!

The other evangelist, the one targetting you, is Goofy1.

The forum they plot together on is The Salvation Army International Forum:

http://www.salvationist.org/sadiscuss.nsf/fm_index

You have to register but you might find it worthwhile to see how many people like them still exist.

Bill

I am not sure why some people hide their real reason for being here???

For those who are interested, forewarned is forearmed. here is a letter from The Salvation Army Forum. about this one:

Okay, Amisk has entered a real den of trouble, but it is where we are called to be and to at least attempt to deliver the "good news" of "salvation". Amisk has already done an excellent job and I am sure they will put two and two together that we came in twos (teehehehehe a play on words there).... These people are lost and hurting and the internet is a whole new ballgame for those of us who are called (all of us) to evangelize..... Remember the "Great Commission" is calling you....

Okay thats it, please pray for Amisk and me too.... Love you guys....

I am not sure i would accept her judgement of how well Amisk is doing, in fact that seems a downright lie to me but you can see where they are coming from.  'Repent and be saved'  and live like them

Goofy1 's real name removed.

Bill

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Sorry snakechic, i changed your name!!The other evangelist, the one targetting you, is Goofy1.The forum they plot together on is The Salvation Army International Forum:http://www.salvationist.org/sadiscuss.nsf/fm_indexYou have to register but you might find it worthwhile to see how many people like them still exist.Bill

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Okay....nice to see you here Bill. I'm not really sure what's going on with that other forum but thanks for letting us know.

I'm still waiting to be 'saved' good and proper like!   ...nothing happening here!

Never mind.....maybe the gang are all still bending heads and prayin' about it? Funny to read....a plot?...is this serious? all a bit dramatic isn't it?  Can't wait for it...

Going by your nicname I take you are or were a Salvo as well?

seeya...

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Reply to : Bill BoothSorry snakechic, i changed your name!!The other evangelist, the one targetting you, is Goofy1.The forum they plot together on is The Salvation Army International Forum:http://www.salvationist.org/sadiscuss.nsf/fm_indexYou have to register but you might find it worthwhile to see how many people like them still exist.BillOkay....nice to see you here Bill. I'm not really sure what's going on with that other forum but thanks for letting us know.I'm still waiting to be 'saved' good and proper like! ...nothing happening here!Never mind.....maybe the gangare all still bending heads and prayin' about it? Funny to read....a plot?...is this serious? all a bit dr

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They will see it as supporting each other in prayer rather than a plot???

Np I am not a Salvationist but i read their forum from time to tome. usually to see how the conservatives (not fundamentalists but they believe in fundamentals??) fight it out with the liberals (anyone who does not agree with them). Good fun on a winter's evening. If only they did not take themselves so seriously.

Bill

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They will see it as supporting each other in prayer rather than rather than a plot???

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Yes...of course they will.I was using a more common term for what they are doing.......basically its a bit of gossip and internet gaming. but yeah..... Its all very serious isn't it.  So they think the people on this site are in need of "evangelization."- that's not my term.

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not fundamentalists but they believe in fundamentals??

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they are fundamentalists  - you can't really miss it Bill.

Okay  it doesn't matter what you call it thou'.......conservative Vs liberals. ......Oh gawd?......who is winning these days Bill? SOunds like a football game.

Will we get to see how the power of prayer works?

What do you think  they will  tell themselves if they fail in their quest?

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Sorry I should have said that was written by Cheryl Baker under her username of Goofy1Bill

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Btw.....I found her style a little on the aggressive side.  I don't think she'll get many 'souls' on her belt using that tone.

bye

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Reply to : snakechicReply to : Bill BoothSorry snakechic, i changed your name!!The other evangelist, the one targetting you, is Goofy1.The forum they plot together on is The Salvation Army International Forum:http://www.salvationist.org/sadiscuss.nsf/fm_indexYou have to register but you might find it worthwhile to see how many people like them still exist.BillOkay....nice to see you here Bill. I'm not really sure what's going on with that other forum but thanks for letting us know.I'm still waiting to be 'saved' good and proper like! ...nothing happening here!Never mind.....maybe the gangare all still bending heads and prayin' about it? Funny to read....a plot?...is this serious? all a bit drThey will see it as supporting each other in prayer rather than

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Dear John,

It is never cool to state someone's full name on an internet site unless they have given permission, in this case you did not have my permission. Have you ever been cyber stalked, it ain't fun and it surely isn't something I would wish on anyone. However; I am glad that you read the Salvation Army forum and hope that you enjoy what you read. Yes, Christians and non-Christians are ordinary people who argue and fuss with one another, but that is human nature and something that we all need to work on.

I do not think that I hid what I was about in the one post that I made here so far, so to say that I have a hidden agenda is rather foolish. I believe that I have the freedom to move about cyber space and interact with whomever I chose and until I am asked to leave for having violated some protocol  here (to which I do not intend to do) I think I will interact here. Do I need your permission? You are freely coming and going on the Salvation Army website, are you not? Don't be afraid John, I can't hurt you and it certainly wouldn't hurt anyone for me to pray to God for them, especially if you do not believe there is a god any way.

Have a great day.

I am sorry you did not want your name mentioning.

Now will you apologise for your usual behaviour pf assuming that you know everyone else's mind??

You said  'especially if you do not believe there is a god any way.'   You habe no idea what my beliefs are except that they were expressed on a forum that is trying to help people who are leaving fundamentalism behind. Does that mean that you and Amisk and Caper do not believe in God - you all post here?

Or do you have divine sight that allows you to know what i believe without being told.

That is exactly the superiority and self righteousness that I am glad to have left behind in fundamentalism.

Bill

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I am sorry you did not want your name mentioning.Now will you apologise for your usual behaviour pf assuming that you know everyone else's mind??You said 'especially if you do not believe there is a god any way.' You habe no idea what my beliefs are except that they were expressed on a forum that is trying to help people who are leaving fundamentalism behind. Does that mean that you and Amisk and Caper do not believe in God - you all post here?Or do you have divine sight that allows you to know what i believe without being told.That is exactly the superiority and self righteousness that I am glad to have left behind in fundamentalism.Bill

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From what I have read from SnakeChic, Voltaire and what you wrote, the emphasis on "no god" and it is pretty obvious that most here do not believe in God, so I do not think I need to apologize. As to your assertion that my usual behavior "of assuming that" I know "everyone else's mind", I have never assumed or implied any such thing and you are wrong for making such an accusation. I am sorry you perceive me and my behavior as "superior and self righteous", something I guess I really need to work on and according to SnakeChic, I am also "aggressive", my apologies.

May I ask why you read the TSA forum if it upsets you so much that you feel you need to attack me? I have never spoken to you that I know of and your behavior seems more aggressive than I have ever been or care to be. This is where I see this particular place as being full of hatred, it is almost as though everyone here has been hurt so badly that they would rather take it out on anyone and everyone who professes to be Christian and totally forget about common decency and respect for their fellow human beings. This is where tolerance and intolerance cross the line and cancel each other out, wouldn't you agree?

Sorry to have upset you so John, but I am glad that I know you are in the TSA forum and reading along.

Take care,