Drummond
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Rank:none Score:1570 Posts:1570 Registered:03/03/2002 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/30/2003 21:25:36)
Living without liberty is not living.
Apparently living without a brain is. I would not want to live in a country where the press was not skeptical about the political leadership.
Incidently, has anyone ever actually seen documentation of an incident where people spat on homecoming soldiers? Because a researcher a while back came up with only one incident on camera - when the veteran protestors were spat on by GOP conventioners in 1972.
usertype:3 tt= 0
-------------------------------------------------------------- From American Splendor
Student to Harvey Pekar: "It"s hard enough trying to convince people that socialism is a good thing without basing your argument on some abstract theory of human nature. Plato tried and failed. Fourier tried and failed. Marx tried and failed. Sartre tried and failed."
Harvey Pekar: "Well maybe I c"n learn from their mistakes."
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Ex-member
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(Date Posted:03/30/2003 23:07:18)
Reply to : Dok
Well, kinda off-topic...but then again...I'm kinda stoned...so I'll bring this up.
Dok, your new avatar...it reminded me of something that I had completely forgotten about...that my brother had shown me about a month ago.
Is anyone familiar with the Indian(or, NATIVE AMERICAN!) girl on the front of the Land 'O Lakes butter container? Well....she's sitting on the ground in some kinda Indian dress...kinda sitting up straight....and her kneecaps are exposed...bare skin...and she's holding them together. So anyway....my brother cuts out the knees with an Exacto knife...he pastes them over her chest...and then, he pastes another little piece of cardboard over the chest...kinda like a little door that opens and closes over them.
So anyway, he hands me Land 'O Lakes Butter mini-tub...and he asks me to open the little "door" on her chest. I look at him skeptically, I take the butter tub, and I open the little cardboard door. There, staring out at me, were the nicest boobs since Aunt Jemima! Holy shit...her boobs fit the exact same color as her face and everything....fit into the little window just perfectly. Her knees were flawlessly transformed into her beautiful boobs!
This post was just a suggestion for those of you who ever wanted to try something cool. Just get a Land O Lakes container and try it for yourself. And, unintentionally...this post is a warning against the detrimental effects of baking your mind on hydroponic weed. Two-toke, most definitely! Hey...I respect the GOOD men and women of law-enforcement everywhere...but, am I the only one who feels a wave of contempt/disgust come over me whenever I spot a police car?? The feeling is the strongest when I have to drive home with weed in the car...it makes me so insecure thinking about a cop pulling me over and needlessly arresting me for the weed that was provided to me by Mother Nature herself. You know something's gone wrong with a society when it outlaws an herb that grows in the sunshine and rain.
I feel pretty peaceful right now...I couldn't imagine wanting to fight or scuffle with anyone about anything. I think if the whole world turned on to weed...we could solve all our problems...we could all just get along...we could never see the need to fight about anything. Right now, everything in my living space is so benign and life-affirming....and my sense of wonderment over life is given back to me. Makes me feel like throwing on Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf" right now and listen to the most glorious tribute to pot of all-time. I still remember back in my teens, when I first heard Sweet Leaf when I was stoned...the song had an entirely different effect....its like my mind was opened up to receive the message of pot...the song became like a psalm to the righteousness and goodness that pot bestows on us....the song wsa like an envelope signed and sealed from heaven...the message sent down to us to teach us how to live.
ALRIGHT NOW!! Won't you listen?
When I first met you, didn't realize I can't forget you, for your suprize you introduced me, to my mind And left me wanting, you and your kind
I love you, Oh you know it
My life was empty forever on a down Until you took me, showed me around My life is free now, my life is clear I love you sweet leaf, though you can't hear
Come on now, try it out
Straight people don't know, what your about They put you down and shut you out you gave to me a new belief and soon the world will love you sweet leaf
________________
That may sound pretty tame by today's standards....but that was plenty blatant for 1970. The only pot references you had in music before that were mild ambivalent euphemisms in Beatles songs....although I'll give Dylan greater due for "Rainy Day Women."
Anyway Ted, shut up. Stop your mind from rambling. Most senseless, needless post of 2003.
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redzed
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Rank:none Score:500 Posts:500 Registered:09/21/2002 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/30/2003 23:28:57)
Reply to : ted5870
Anyway Ted, shut up. Stop your mind from rambling. Most senseless, needless post of 2003.
Ted, that was brilliant, loved it
Reply to: Dok
You have some good points, here and elsewhere, do you think the Iraqi's are going to forget the destruction of their homes and the slaughter of their innocents? Probably not hey? To my mind war is an obscenity, easily the worst of all evils, it is like setting a fire ablaze with no way of predicting which way it will go in the future or whether we will be able to control it. However as you said the war has begun, what do we do now? Fight it and win, or back down and what happens then?
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Albert Einstein: "A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe" a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us."
Namaste
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Drummond
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Rank:none Score:1570 Posts:1570 Registered:03/03/2002 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/30/2003 23:59:19)
? Fight it and win, or back down and what happens then?
I opposed the war, but I think it would be cruel to the Iraqis to pull out now, after we hung them out to dry a decade ago. I'm hoping this goes as quickly as possible with as few casualties as possible, although I'm losing hope in that regard. Iraq is no Viet Nam, but it's also no Afghanistan.
On the other hand, I think it's important to keep up with the peace demonstrations, especially as there is now talks of attacking Syria and/or Iran.
usertype:3 tt= 0
-------------------------------------------------------------- From American Splendor
Student to Harvey Pekar: "It"s hard enough trying to convince people that socialism is a good thing without basing your argument on some abstract theory of human nature. Plato tried and failed. Fourier tried and failed. Marx tried and failed. Sartre tried and failed."
Harvey Pekar: "Well maybe I c"n learn from their mistakes."
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RavenSilverheart
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Rank:none Score:622 Posts:622 Registered:01/19/2003 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 00:02:22)
"I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications. "
Dok, I thought I remembered you mentioning earlier that it wasn't fair to be anti-war because previous administrations sold them the WMDs and other such army materials in the first place. While Clinton's actions were despicable, Reagan did it too. I don't know if Bush senior did, but he probably did. Either you hold the past administrations accountable (all of them, GOP or Dems) or you hold none of them accountable.
It just reminds me of the people that give Reagan credit for winning the Cold War. Well, no, the USSR collapsed without Reagan's help. In fact, it probably might've collapsed faster without him. Did Clinton start the cycle of terrorism? No, but his actions sure didn't help it at all. I honestly don't think anything can be done to stop terrorists from doing what they want. My mom got a butter knife onto an airplane without realizing it awhile back. If they're determined and smart little fuckers, they can do a lot. For instance, very few people monitor those giant cargo crates that come into large ports. I know that there's been a big push for that lately, but honestly...if you want to ship a lot of chemical weapons or a good sized nuke, that'd be the way to do it. And frankly, if you ship it into Houston, the chemicals'll look a hell of a lot like the rest of the crap we use to refine all the oil. People are all so freaked out about terrorism. My mom's got an escape route planned (because, of course, the terrorists are going to strike Houston, truly the heartland of America...), and remember the run on duct tape? There's not much you CAN do to be prepared, really. So why let paranoia rule your life?
Actually, that rambling paragraph probably had nothing to do with Dok's post. Although, he does have a point about the media. Backhanded thrusts at the president were not appropriate after Sept. 11. He's president now, give over. But I think most of that rhetoric has died away.
Heehee...I love that Land O Lakes butter trick. My roommate and I got a kick out of it a couple weeks ago when we were drunk.
Maybe you (or anyone) can explain to me the difference between being unpatriotic and not liking the war, and being patriotic and not liking the war. Because...I'm never going to like the war. But I love my country and I'm tired of being called unpatriotic. What am I doing wrong?
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-------------------------------------------------------------- "There are three topics which are taboo as far as Americans are concerned...[and one is] the total atheist who lives a happy and useful life and dies in his sleep at the age of 106."
- Vladimir Nabokov, introduction to Lolita
"Perhaps we should focus on the positive aspect of video games. For example, children can pick up real world experience in the event that the earth is taken over by monsters and the only thing that can save humanity is magical swords, rocks, and...playing cards."
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Stumpy
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Rank:none Score:350 Posts:350 Registered:12/21/2001 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 00:29:13)
DOK.....no one is asking you to forget. I have the faces of men, women, children firmly in my mind that I will take to the grave.
I saw many of the same films as you, in fact force myself to view them, read historical accounts of that which these men go/gone thru. I have asked so many times why is it we do this to men? Why do we put them thru this?
I question/protest/critque because I want this this to end/stop. And as idealist as you pereceive it to be it is the only avenue/forum I have.
How does one define a good war from a bad war? Good terror/bad terror? A good type of agrression vs a bad type? What/how do we rationalize this? When the price is so extremely high should there not be questions?
I said it before and will say it again.....there comes a time when you set aside the inventions/constraints of man and deal with your conscience.
I truly am sorry for that which triggered this sort of response in you. I know what type of person you are deep down.
I hope you can attempt to understand that which Luara is experiencing right now. You have been where she is at.......
You know I wish you well/peace of mind.
Stumpy
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-------------------------------------------------------------- "Have mercy on my soul
I'll never let you know
Where my mind has been....."
Angels Would Fall/M. Etheridge
"Did you take it too far?
Did you forget who you are?
Did you stash your soul into
the closet forever.......?
Beth Hart
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Jhcbiinoc
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Rank:none Score:24 Posts:24 Registered:01/08/2002 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 04:27:41)
I strongly dislike both Saddam Hussein and GW Bush. I do not dislike Bush because he is Republican (in fact, I do not dislike ANY Republicans aside from those who try and shove the Bible down my throat or who wish to legislate their own ideas of sexual morality on others) but rather because I feel he is dangerous. IMHO, Bush is either a dangerous right-wing Christian fundamentalist who poses a serious threat to civil liberties, inlcuding forums such as this one existing, OR he is willing to do whatever it takes to win the votes and financial support of right wing Christian fundies including giving governmental control over to them.
If I truly believed that this war was breing fought to preserve the freedom of ALL Americans, and not just those who are "REAL God fearing Americans" and not just freedom for male-dominated, white, heterosexual conservative Christian America, then I might be more supportive of it. As it is, it makes me madder than hell that our troops-who would lay their life on the line to preserve what America is supposed to stand for-freedom for ALL people-are being sent to die, and they and innocent Iraqis are dying for Bush's personal agenda.
What also horrifies me is that it is frighteningly possible for things to go from, "If you don't support Bush then you are a traitor to America" to "If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior and obey the Bible, you are an unpatriotic un-American terrorist".
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-------------------------------------------------------------- "Strange How Laughter Looks Like Crying Without Sound, And Raindrops Taste Like Tears, Without The Pain"
"Assimilation is a Lie, it is Spiritual Erasure"
"Mine is not a better way, merely a different way"
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nologoboy
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Rank:none Score:513 Posts:513 Registered:07/24/2001 Time spent: 18128 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 04:57:07)
Reply to : ted5870's ode to sweetleaf
i can relate those feelings of peaceful bliss. must admit that pot was always my choice of drugs. it is so much better than alcohol, for a start. i don't smoke like i used to because it started to rule my life. i was in love it. i haven't smoked for months now but i used to smoke every day of my life when i was a fulltime musician. i took it up as an adult becasue i was so appalled by the violent behaviour of drinkers at the clubs i played in (there is always blood where testoserone and alcohol presides). every now and then we would play more 'festival' style gigs where everyone was more or less stoned. peaceful, wonderful, loving gigs. why is alcohol the choice of society as the #1 drug? the fact that pot is not legal is a complete sham. i often think it is because it is so hard to commodify and tax...being a festy-growing weed that will bloom whever you throw down a seed or two. i never got busted for smoking and i became probably a little too cocky with it's usage, driving down the 'funky' street of the inner-city suburb where i lived or sparking up on stage.
i agree that the world would be a more peaceful place if pot was the choice drug instead of alcohol.
ps - probably the first album that i can relate to pot is "let love rule" by kravitz. i know it's a cliche to say this but how good is that first time when you watch pink floyd's "the wall" while under the influence?
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-------------------------------------------------------------- "In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we have been taught." -Baba Dioum
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Ex-member
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 06:18:05)
Reply to : nologoboy
i know it's a cliche to say this but how good is that first time when you watch pink floyd's "the wall" while under the influence?
The Wall was pretty damn good. But usually, I was more ready to watch Evil Dead Pt. I or 2. Nowadays, I think that Jackass is pretty rad under influence, too. (Steve-O is so great the way he always says "HaHa...Yeh Duude" as someone is giving him a piercing somewhere.)
I agree with you about "Let Love Rule." It was a great album to get into. I love the second part of Sittin' On Top of the World when he's goin "Spread a little love and get high" and all that. Kravitz seemed lilke a true hippie on that album...there was a DEFINITE peace and love vibe on that album....and it didnt seem manufactured or artificial at all.(And I hate to admit it, the album started me on my way to believing that "Black people love me." They DO love me.")
I still remember the first time I heard Let Love Rule(the song) in a record store. It sounded like a song that was crafted by the late '60s Beatles. I would call Let Love Rule the ONLY Kravitz album....although I think some of "Mama Said" is cool, too.
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nologoboy
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Rank:none Score:513 Posts:513 Registered:07/24/2001 Time spent: 18128 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 07:34:58)
Reply to : ted5870
But usually, I wasmore ready to watch Evil Dead Pt. I or 2.
oh, yes....yes!yes!yes! i had those movies on video and wore them both out. i used to sit around with the other revellers after gigs and laugh ourselves stupid at both of them.....could never decide which was the better film. in the end, i would say that they both deserve equal status, #1 because it just goes to show how much fun you can have with one of the lowest budgets ever to be allocated to a movie & #2 because there has never been a single character in a movie that has had to endure such a tortuously long night in the hands of evil. .....just to end up a long way from home at the end of it........poor bastard.
I still remember the first time I heard Let Love Rule(the song) in a record store.?It sounded like a song that was crafted by the late '60s Beatles.?I would call Let Love Rule the ONLY Kravitz album....although I think some of "Mama Said" is cool, too.
agreed..major beatles influences there. he wrote that album when he was with that 'cosby kid'......what's her name????.......and was literally in a place of love and happiness. as for "mamma said", the title tyrack was an absolute killer, along with 'fields of joy' but most of the other stuff appealed to my girlfriend much more than me. then, alas, it all seemed to take a downward slide after 'are you gonna go my way'..alas & alas.
usertype:3 tt= 0
-------------------------------------------------------------- "In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we have been taught." -Baba Dioum
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Drummond
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Rank:none Score:1570 Posts:1570 Registered:03/03/2002 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 08:12:32)
Well, how did we get onto trip movies? I never saw Evil Dead, but while I enjoyed The Wall when it came out as an album, by the time the movie came out I had gotten tired of Roger Watters' constant whining about how mean all the women in his life were to him and how rough it is to be a multi-millionaire rock star. In fact, I think I was listening to the Animals album once when I was, well, perceptually and conceptually altered, and it dawned on me that he was fucking depressing.
There's a part of one of the Animal songs that he threw in like other rock stars to leak to the freak out fundies for the same type of publicity Led Zepplin and others were getting about backwards music. I think it's the song about the Sheep. The song takes an eerie turn, and you hear a synthesizer mechanical voice, but you can't make out the words unless you read the lyrics in the album cover. It's taken from some Satanist "Book of Shadows" and is a play on the Psalm that begins "yea and I walk through the valley of death." Only it's gory, talking about how the "lord" makes me hang bleeding on hooks (rather than sleep in green pasteurs), or some cheap slasher film imagery - all to convince the freakout fundies that Roger Watters is secretly a Satanist. Of course I had to hear about it on Praise the Lord.
But I did like the the "Wish you were Here" album. Instead of focusing on his own neurosis, Watters gave tribute to Syd Barrett's psychosis.
Of course, my favorite album wasn't a concept album at all - Meddle. The second side is one song, Echoes, that reminds me of Escher's "Metamorphosis" in the way it moves.
Now, the best stoner movies for me were always movies that weren't intended to be stoner movies. Most of the ones that are, are easy to spot as stupid even when you're stoned. This takes something from the experience. I'm talking about the want-to-be cult films like The Phantom of the Paradise (Please, I'd rather see Barry Manilow in a stoner movie than Paul Williams), Rock and Roll High School, the lame sequel to the Rocky Horror Picture Show, The Trip, and most of the alleged documentaries about bands, like The Kids are Allright.
If you want a bad trip, watch David Lynch's Eraserhead. Actually, I get a bad trip from his movies even when I'm not stoned.
However, the best stoner movies are the cheesey science fictions like Plan 9 from Outer Space, Mars Needs Women, or Santa Clause Conquers the Martians.
Or creepy movies like the origional The Haunting or Diablo. Or Village of the Damned.
Fritz the Cat is also a good stoner movie. As are the 70s dystopian science fictions like Solyent Green or Logan's Run.
3-D movies were always good.
But my all time favorite stoner movie was the mainstream Amadeus. Great visuals. Great music. Intense emotions. A full body experience.
Avoid Space Odysey 2001 however. It's slow enough when you're straight. The time dilation seems to make it last forever.
And any kids reading this, please remember, drugs are very bad for you.
usertype:3 tt= 0
-------------------------------------------------------------- From American Splendor
Student to Harvey Pekar: "It"s hard enough trying to convince people that socialism is a good thing without basing your argument on some abstract theory of human nature. Plato tried and failed. Fourier tried and failed. Marx tried and failed. Sartre tried and failed."
Harvey Pekar: "Well maybe I c"n learn from their mistakes."
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nologoboy
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Rank:none Score:513 Posts:513 Registered:07/24/2001 Time spent: 18128 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 08:45:14)
Reply to : Drummond
Well, how did we get onto trip movies?
don't know....but it is infectious.
If you want a bad trip, watch David Lynch's Eraserhead.?Actually, I get a bad trip from his movies even when I'm not stoned
agreed. great movie moaker but a lot of hard work if your brain's not in gear, with the very obvious exception of 'wild at heart', which is a lot easier to follow in altered states. very trippy movie but fast-moving and a hell of a lot of fun. i love the young nicolas cage.
However, the best stoner movies are the cheesey science fictions like Plan 9 from Outer Space, Mars Needs Women, or Santa Clause Conquers the Martians.?
add to that 'mars attacks' & 'starship troopers'.
sorry dok, for shredding an otherwise very serious thread. as you were.
usertype:3 tt= 0
-------------------------------------------------------------- "In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we have been taught." -Baba Dioum
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zarathustra
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Rank:none Score:655 Posts:655 Registered:02/04/2002 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 14:11:07)
Excellent and timely post, Dok.
One note on the Cold War, after the fall of the USSR, several former KGB operatives toured on a lecture circuit. Unfortunately I cannot provide a link support this, but at the time they attributed the fall of the USSR to Reagan. One, they knew that he meant what he said and the SDI program literally drove their defense spending into the ground.
usertype:3 tt= 0
-------------------------------------------------------------- And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host saying, "You guys are in a world of shit now!"
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gregpstone
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Rank:none Score:237 Posts:237 Registered:10/06/2002 Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/31/2003 16:04:33)
Reply to : Drummond
Of course, my favorite album wasn't a concept album at all - Meddle. The second side is one song, Echoes, that reminds me of Escher's "Metamorphosis" in the way it moves.
Right on Drummond, "Meddle" is my favorite also. "Obscured by Clouds" is also high on the list and "Dark Side of the Moon" holds a special place in my heart because I saw Pink Floyd on that tour. One of my top three concerts of all time, the other two being The Count Basie Orchestra and Humble Pie. That Pink Floyd concert was the only concert I've ever been to where there was no applause at the end - everyone was too stunned.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- We've all got holes to fill
Them holes are all that's real
Some fall on you like a storm
Sometimes you dig your own
Where ya been is good and gone
All you keep is the gettin there ..... To Live is to Fly - Townes Van Zandt
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