Title: White Christmas Songs
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(Date Posted:05/28/2013 09:33)

Chip,

I've been meaning to ask this before but keep forgetting.  Do you know the reasoning why they chose to overdub Vera-Ellen's voice with "Trudy Stevens"  Trudy was the following:  (performer: "Sisters", "The Best Things Happen When You're Dancing", "Snow", "Gee! I Wish I Was Back in the Army" / "White Christmas")  Trudy has also been credited with other movies.

I also understand that Rosemary Clooney had trouble with the dance numbers, but they still used her for dancing and also her voice, but I guess Vera-Ellen was such a great dancer, but maybe couldn't carry a tune.  But there really isn't any indication why they used Trudy Stevens voice.
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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/29/2013 01:20)


Susan,

It was the common practice in Hollywood back then to dub the singing voice for an actor or actress who either couldn't sing, or could sing, but didn't have the vocal range that was necessary for the particular role that he or she was portraying on the screen. That is why Trudy Stevens' voice was used for Vera-Ellen's singing parts in the film White Christmas. Another good example of this is the film My Fair Lady, where Marni Nixon's singing voice was used for most (but not all) of Audrey Hepburn's singing parts in the picture.

By the way, for the song Sisters in the film White Christmas, Rosemary Clooney sang both parts. However, for the Decca Records soundtrack LP, Trudy Stevens did indeed sing on the song Sisters, along with Peggy Lee who provided the other voice. Peggy Lee sang all of Rosemary Clooney's parts on the official Decca Records soundtrack LP as a result of Clooney's inability to participate due to her contractual obligations to Columbia Records at the time.
MCA Records released the Decca soundtrack LP on CD in 1994, but unfortunately, it is now out-of-print.






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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/29/2013 08:52)

Thanks Chip,

I appreciate the information.  I've seen the soundtrack album "White Christmas", in thrift stores, but can't remember if it was a single 33 1/3 LP or a set of 78 RPM records.  I have also seen it as a Boxed-Set of 45's, but there were records missing. 

I know that Irving Berlin wrote all of the songs for the movie, and there was a version of "Snow" sung by Rosemary Clooney alone, but I'm guessing it was on a single or one of her albums.  I didn't realize that Rosemary Clooney actually sang both parts for "Sisters" in the movie.  I had though that Trudy Stevens was singing Vera-Ellen's part.

On a slightly different note, I know too that "The Partridge Family" they only used David Cassidy, and I believe Shirley Jones' voices and the rest were done by other singers.  I don't know about the guitar playing by Danny Bonaduce or the 2 actor's who played Chris were actually playing the drums or not.

Then with "The Monkees", according to the 2000 made for TV movie "Daydream Believers:  The Monkees' Story",  initially they weren't allowed to actually play the music on several of the songs because of Don Kirshner.  He felt that they were more suited to be comedic actors and had professional musicians pre-record the music and then the Monkees sang the songs during the show or in the studio.  Then people started asking them if they were actually playing their instruments.

I believe that Mike Nesmith kept fighting to get the producers, etc., to actually allow them to play their own instruments and they did eventually get to.  They had to respond to critics and media articles about them not playing their own instruments.    Don Kirshner was fired, but released a single, I can't think of the title at the moment, but did it without the Network and other Producer's permission, so they re-released the single with them playing the instruments themselves and I believe indicated that they were actually playing their own instruments. 

One other group, "The Archies" were made up of Studio Musicians, but Ron Dante was the lead singer and later was the lead singer of the group "The Cuff Links"

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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/29/2013 19:00)


Susan,

Rosemary Clooney recorded the song Snow for her 1954 8-song 10" Christmas LP entitled, Irving Berlin's White Christmas. Since she contractually was not able to participate in the 1954 Decca Records soundtrack LP (Selections From Irving Berlin's White Christmas), Columbia Records had her record her own album with a very similar title to compete with the Decca LP. The cover of Rosemary's 10" LP is shown below.

As for the Partridge Family, the singing voices were provided by Ron Hicklin, Jackie Ward and brothers John and Tom
Bähler. David Cassidy was only allowed to participate in the studio recordings after he auditioned for record producer Wes Farrell and convinced him that he could sing the lead vocals for the group. The only song Shirley Jones sang in the studio was I Think I Love You, which was recorded on May 11, 1970 (with an additional male background vocalist, Stan Farber). For the music, Bell Records hired studio musicians. By the way, Jackie Ward is the woman who had the big hit Wonderful Summer in late 1963; she recorded the song under her alias, Robin Ward. And lastly, regarding the Monkees, it was both Mike Nesmith and Peter Tork who fought for the guys to be allowed to play their own instruments, which eventually they were indeed allowed to do.





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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/30/2013 10:34)

Thanks for the correct information, Chip,

I had read years ago that David Cassidy had been singing the lead in all of the songs, and this was from some teen magazine or something.  It was so long ago that I can't say for sure.  The same with Shirley Jones, being she was already known for singing on Broadway and in movies, if my memory is correct, Carousel and The Music Man are 2 that I can think of right now.  The person singing Keith's part on the show sounded a lot like David Cassidy.

About the Monkees, I thought that Peter Tork was also fighting to get to be able to play their own instruments, but wasn't quite sure, and I think in the movie that I mentnioned, being that is most recent in my mind, I remembered that Mike Nesmith was the one and since you've refreshed my memory, Peter Tork was also fighting to get to be able to play their instruments.  I think even Davey Jones had thought about leaving the group because there was a lot of tension between the group and producers, etc.  I think Davey's family was also putting pressure on him and wanting him to return home.

Also, the producers  didn't want the public to know that Mike Nesmith was married because it wouldn't look good for the group being they were trying to reach the teenagers and they felt that this would ruin the groups image.  But when The Beatles appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show, for their very first appearance, they superimposed the names of the members in front of them on the screen and when they got to John, they showed "Sorry Girls, He's Married:" during their song ""Till There Was You"

I never realized that "Robin Ward" was actually "Jackie Ward"  I have her 45 "Wonderful Summer" and it is one of my favorite songs from the 1960's, but had to get it from used record store back in the 1980's.  I can't find it right now, but I have several boxes of 45's to look through.  I haven't heard it on the radio at all since I can remember, and I don't think it is on any of those "Time-Life" Infomercials that they have with about 10 CD's of music and booklets with information about the artists and songs.  It took me a good 30 years to finally get the record.

It was a similar situation with "The City Never Sleeps At Night" by Nancy Sinatra  It is on the flip side of "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'", but I don't believe it is the original flip side to "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'" being I have seen at least 3 copies of this song and the flip side was an entirely different song.  On my 45, the A Side is "The City Never Sleeps At Night' Reprise Records 0432 (HX3864)  and the B Side is "The Boots Are Made For Walkin'" Reprise Records 0432 (HX 3865).  I spent another 30+ years looking for this record and found it through a used record store.

I am one very determined woman when it comes to finding records.  I will probably be ready for a nursing home and still looking for certain records.

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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/30/2013 23:35)


Susan,

Not sure why the confusion, but as I said in my previous post, David Cassidy sang all of his parts in all of the songs from the Partridge Family. So I'm not sure what you meant when you said,
"The person singing Keith's part on the show sounded a lot like David Cassidy." There is no distinction between the songs on the show and the songs that were recorded in the studio and sold commercially by Bell Records. They are one and the same. When the songs were used on the show, the cast (including Cassidy) would lip-sync the words. The only difference is that Cassidy was lip-syncing his own voice and the other cast members were lip-syncing the voices of Ron Hicklin, Jackie Ward and brothers John and Tom Bähler.

Regarding Shirley Jones, I am rather stunned that you didn't refer to her two biggest movies: the classic musical, Oklahoma, where she made her impressive movie debut; and Elmer Gantry, where she won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress. These are the two movies by far that she is most known for today.

As for the Monkees, I have never seen that TV movie you are alluding to, but all I can say to you is that you cannot totally rely on TV movies (or theatrical movies for that matter) for complete accuracy.

And lastly, the flip side of Nancy Sinatra's 1966 45-rpm hit single These Boots Are Made For Walkin' is indeed The City Never Sleeps At Night. See the original 45-rpm picture sleeve posted below.






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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/31/2013 07:54)

Chip,

I must have misunderstood your explanation about David Cassidy being you mentioned that he was allowed to sing in "David Cassidy was only allowed to participate in the studio recordings after he auditioned for record producer Wes Farrell and convinced him that he could sing the lead vocals for the group."  So I thought that it meant that he was only singing on the records, and not on the actual show.  I did  mention that I could only think of 2 movies right now, in my earlier post.

I couldn't think of Oklahoma, and I had started to list Elmer Gantry, but I don't remember the movie very well and with my thoughts all over the place, I couldn't remember if she sang in the movie or not, being it was a drama and not a musical.

The 2000 made for TV Movie was on Netflix, I don't know if it is still available for streaming or not and I do realize you can't trust everything you see on TV or in the movies etc., as being fully accurate.   I mentioned the movie because it had reminded me about the Monkees not being allowed to play their own instruments and I could remember from reading way back in the 1970's about that and the movie refreshed my memory, but then I didn't remember that Peter Tork was also fighting to get to be able to play their own instruments.

I don't have the original picture sleeve for "The City Never Sleeps At Night/These Boots Are Made For Walkin'  " by Nancy Sinatra, but found one online, possibly from Germany, on Discogs.com, but they had the titles reversed and the sleeve is reversed, so I edited the post and included scans of the actual 45 and it shows the numbers from the records and though "A" and "B" aren't listed, the catalog number in parentheses shows differently, and that "The City Never Sleeps At Night" is the first side.  As I mentioned in my previous post, the catalog number under 0432 is (HX3864) for "The City Never Sleeps At Night" and for it is (HX3865) for "These Boots Are Made For Walkin' "  In the enlarged image of the actual record, you can see the HX numbers in the etchings on the smooth space at the end of the track.

But as I had mentioned, I have seen a couple other copies of this record and there is another song on the flip side of "These Boots Are Made For Walkin' "

The "Picture Sleeve" you included shows R0432 and the one I included shows RA 0432 but the record itself just shows 0432, so I don't know if mine is a reissue or what.  Again, I didn't get the original "Picture Sleeve" with mine, but just a plain generic sleeve.
The City Never Sleeps At Night Paper Sleeve
The City Never Sleeps At Night Side A
The Boots Are Made For Walkin' Side B
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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/31/2013 16:20)


Susan,

That number on the 45 means nothing other than a catalog designation for each side of the disc. It does not in any way whatsoever denote Side A or Side B. The A-Side on the 45 is clearly stated on the picture sleeve.

I went to that website (Discogs) where you found that image you posted of the German pressing of the 45 and you are wrong: the image of the picture sleeve was not reversed by Discogs, nor did they incorrectly reverse the titles in the track list: Side A is correctly shown as These Boots Are Made For Walkin' and Side B is correctly shown as The City Never Sleeps At Night.
Click here.

In addition, for even further proof, there is yet another page for These Boots Are Made For Walkin' on the Discogs website that shows the 45 with its alternate domestic picture sleeve and images of both sides of the disc which have the exact same number designations you alluded to.
Click here.

Your interpretation that the chronologically lower number of HX3864 (for The City Never Sleeps At Night) vs. HX3865 (for These Boots Are Made For Walkin') somehow denotes Side A and Side B is unequivocally wrong. The song The City Never Sleeps At Night was never the A-Side of this 45-rpm single.


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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:05/31/2013 21:36)

Oh OK,  I had presumed being I have seen other numbers on LP's and 45's where it listed side A and B, and the number in parentheses was 1 number higher on Side B than on Side A.  I will have to go back to Discogs and correct my edit if it has been posted.  I hope this explains where my confusion comes in.  I can't reference a specific LP at the moment, but there are several of them where it either shows Side One and Side Two or Side A and Side B and then the catalog number and then in parentheses, the first side will be 1 number lower than the second side.

I don't know if I'm the only one who thought this was the reasoning by the secondary catalog number in parentheses or not.  I have also seen picture sleeves where the titles will be one way on one side and then the titles will be switched on the other side.

Thanks for setting me straight.

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RE:White Christmas Songs
(Date Posted:06/01/2013 03:40)


No problem at all, Susan. I completely understand how someone could be misled by those number designations -- especially with the absence of a Side A and Side B designation on the disc. Also, because most of the time the catalog number designations on Side A were indeed one digit lower that Side B, and not the other way around.


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