cumom
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Registered:10/25/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 1:06 AM)
Reply to : ajsobrio
Does anybody still pray?
Only when I'm getting close.
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"The ocean refuses no river."
Sheila Chandra, from "Ever So Lonely"
my blog: Todd"s Hammer
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GDTeacher
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Registered:04/03/2003
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 1:07 AM)
Reply to : Mayan Elephant
anyone remember the mtc moment when you could no longer pray in english? oh yeah. if those prayers are the ones that get answered on the lords terms, get ready for a "serving of socks and dogs to health you better and hurt your chicken one week on earth." or something like that.
Or how thank you for our sex education teacher. Bless us with soy sauce.
That's pretty good as well.
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"All men should strive to learn before they die, what they are running from, and to, and why" --James Thurber
"Shams and delusions are esteemed for soundest truths, while reality is fabulous." -- Henry David Thoreau
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cumom
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Registered:10/25/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 1:44 AM)
Reply to : GDTeacher
Or how thank you for our sex education teacher. Bless us with soy sauce.
Me, praying with a child whose dog had just had puppies:
"We're thankful for Francoise's shitpots" (who knew that the word for puppy didn't have a feminine form?)
Blue (i.e., green) companion, with a gator, appros of her daughters:
"And please celestian father, wound them with pretty breasts." (I don't know what he was thinking, good health and pretty breats are only slightly similar; but to be fair, the French word for wound is "blesser".)
And my favorite mispronunciation of a line from the 1st discussion:
"So he [Joseph Smith] puked in a small nightclub not far from his house to pray." (Hey, French requires tight, puckered lips and attention to detail.)
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"The ocean refuses no river."
Sheila Chandra, from "Ever So Lonely"
my blog: Todd"s Hammer
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SLC Poser
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Registered:04/05/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 1:57 AM)
Reply to : ajsobrio
Does anybody still pray?
no, but i try to meditate regularly.
my dw has a great compound cuss word that might count as a negative prayer: goddammittomotherfuckinghell!
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Mayan Elephant
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Registered:07/20/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 2:06 AM)
Reply to : SLC Poser
Reply to : cumomOnly when I'm getting close.
what, a three out of five  ?
i say,
why does the holy ghost/spirit never get a mention in those moments? i hope dw is not reading this, i may crack off an "oh brother joseph" once. i suppose it will only be once.
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I"m going to get [The Dangerous Book for Boys and the Dangerous Book for Girls] for our 12 year old daughter.
-Dathon on NOM, 8/25/2007
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El Gaucho
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 4:38 AM)
How about "jumping jesus on a pogo stick" - that one always conjures funny images for me.
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ajsobrio
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Registered:11/15/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 4:56 AM)
I think I lost you all about 12 posts ago...Maybe its my young age or low intelligence, but either way, Im extremely out of the loop.
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Mr-Brightside
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 5:11 AM)
Reply to : ajsobrio
Maybe its my young age or low intelligence, but either way, Im extremely out of the loop.
I think it's more to do with us being a bunch of smart-asses than any lack of intelligence on your part. 
-Mr. B
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I"m much-too-fucking clever to be hurt right now.
Jer Illuminated
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AttentionSpan
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Registered:06/14/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 5:31 AM)
Don't worry -- it wasn't until SL Poser laughed at cumom's joke that I finally got it.
Pretty funny joke it was! You see, the point in every man's life when he is so close to ... well .... how young did you say you were?
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rittermonster06
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Registered:11/16/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 9:01 AM)
Hello Everyone,
This is Ryan again... I have a very sincere request for everybody, and I mean this with all due respect for the forum that you all have provided here and the very honest and intelligent advice that you have given to both of us... It is all very much appreciated...
Both Amber and I have stuggled for many months, and are continuing to do so including a very rough night that we have just had. Tears, doubts, questions, guilt, frustration, anger... You can undoubtedly recall that the process of discovering a new reality can feel unbearably difficult at times... This is where we are right now. Please try and take yourselves back to the times when you were experiencing all that comes with doubting your religion, and the extremely vulnerable and emotional state you were in. I just feel like this thread has lost its sincerity when real people are looking for help who feel like the world has just been shoved out from underneath them...
I appreciate and understand the light-hearted nature of your posts, but if you could PLEASE try and remember what it was like when you were going through the same experience that Amber is, and post in understanding and knowing what she is going through... This is a forum that can provide support and insight for her that I am not able to provide no matter how hard I try because I have not been through the same thing. I do my absolute best to understand what she is going through but I will never fully be able to get it.
Thank you all once again for your continued support and advice, it has been of great help to both of us... I'll talk to you all later, have a good one.
Amber, I love you...
-Ryan
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Mayan Elephant
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Registered:07/20/2005
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 9:55 AM)
Reply to : rittermonster06
Hello Everyone,This is Ryan again...I have a very sincere request for everybody, and I mean this with all due respect for the forum that you all have provided here and the veryhonest and intelligent advice that you have given to both of us... It is allvery much appreciated...Both Amber and I have stuggledfor many months, and are continuing to do so including a very rough night that we have just had.Tears, doubts, questions, guilt, frustration, anger... You can undoubtedly recall that the process of discovering a new reality canfeel unbearably difficult at times... This is wherewe areright now. Please try and take yourselves back to the times when you were experiencing all that comes with doubting your religion, and the extremely vulnerable and emotional state you were i
no worries bro.
i suggest you start a new thread if there is a specific topic you want to explore, or chime in on any old thread as this one has more pages than would fit in a cave full of hand engraved gold plates. it has indeed gotten just a tad bit out of hand.
we are all sympathetic during these moments of harsh realizations. at the same time, we are all at different stages and express things in bizarroworld ways sometimes, often employing some whack humor.
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I"m going to get [The Dangerous Book for Boys and the Dangerous Book for Girls] for our 12 year old daughter.
-Dathon on NOM, 8/25/2007
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fled utah
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 3:25 PM)
Here is a favorite prayer of mine "jesustittiefuckingchrist Make a basket."
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rittermonster06
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 6:42 PM)
Reply to : fled utah
Here is a favorite prayer of mine "jesustittiefuckingchrist Make a basket."
Why?
There is a "grab-ass and free play" forum for this type of stuff, fled...
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KingFolly
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Registered:10/26/2004
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 7:32 PM)
Ryan,
I agree that the "favorite prayers" stuff should go in another thread. I certainly sympethize with where Amber is right now. Unfortunately, two years later I can say that some of the wounds have still not fully healed. Some of my siblings may well resent my decision for the rest of our lives. My mother will, at least at some level, NEVER get over it.
I believe that you are in a very difficult position, Ryan. Realistically, your relationship with Amber can only continue to grow if she forsakes her entire upbringing, culture, and worldview. No matter how logical such a proposition might seem in light of the church's unbelievable history, it's still extremely taxing on a number of levels. To others--perhaps members of her family--you might actually appear to be the cause of Amber's pain. You're not, of course, but it appears as though a continued relationship together will require her to make a sacrifice that you are not having to make. That inequity is certainly not your fault--but it is an inequity nonetheless.
There's a reason why the members of this forum who have shared their recovery from Mormonism with a spouse seem to have a renewed and improved relationship with that spouse: it's because they are going through it together rather than from different perspectives.
Ryan, it appears from what I see that you're doing a commendable job of supporting Amber--probably the best you can do in the situation. But if the "rough nights" include debates where she takes the position supporting the church and you take the opposite side then you're going to be on the receiving end of resentment when the inevitable guilt trips come if she forsakes the church.
My heart goes out to you both.
--Steve
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fled utah
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 8:27 PM)
There is a "grab-ass and free play" forum for this type of stuff, fled..
It's because I've taken my path out of cultism in a light hearted manner.
As for your question. I've never really had the doubts. I guess you could count me as an individual who never truly believed. I was BIC, so I therefore did not have much choice when it came to being baptized and later receiving the priestcraft. Also, since I have two older siblings who are now considered apostates, my flee hasn't really been all that troublesome on me. The guilt she is feelings is the belief that she is letting her parents down. It's a tough strain, but one that is overcome through a few years of escapism.
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NaturalMan
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(Date Posted:12/07/2005 9:25 PM)
Our situation has been interesting because...
I went through the entire "dissappointing my parents" thing when I JOINED THE CHURCH. It got worse when I went on a mission, then the BYU thing. Then the KILLER was when I got married in the temple and none of my family or friends were able to come in so they all suffered the humiliation of waiting outside.
So... this time around as we have exited the church with our children, HER family is going through a similar experience and my wife is now understanding much of how I was feeling and how my family must have felt.
She has had a few long talks with my father, which have helped her immensely in understanding how a parent feels, since her parents aren't very good at sharing their feelings. They would rather just call the membership activiation missionaries to call us for our contact information and narce on us to our local unit.
What we have done with both sides of the family on my way into the church and now on my wife's way out of the church has been to do our very best to go out of our way to be as "normal" and as NICE as possible to our extended families to let them know we think of them and that we love them. We have spent time with them and gone all out to make their time enjoyable.
For example, LB2s parents were here for Thanksgiving. We made their favorite meals every day they were here in addition to Thanksgiving dinner. I made them their favorite desserts. We planned lots of family activities with the kids involved, so we just kept them very busy. They have called since to thank us for the wonderful time they had. What they haven't shared, but that we know and understand through the extended family grapevine is that they were dreading the trip because to them we have "died". They were worried that all they would do was sit around our home and feel bad about the whole situation. The only uncomfortable moment was truly of THEIR creation and we just didn't let it bother us. They got up Sunday morning and looked in the phone book for a church service to attend, got all dressed up, etc., while we all made popcorn and other goodies while we sat around and watched football and christmas shows on TV.
They don't see the irony of driving 8 1/2 hours in each direction to be with family, then when you get there spending from 10:30 to nearly 4:00 getting ready, traveling and attending church and then returning home, which takes you away from family interaction for the better part of a day. I think somebody (LB2s dad) thinks he had to provide us a "missionary" experience with his "faithfulness" without realizing all he was doing was reinforcing our beliefs that the church is all about the institution and NOT about family time at all.
I sent Amber a couple of PMs and phone #s for my wife and one of my daughters living in the dorms at UNR if that will be of any help.
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"Is this a something? Or... is this a nothing?
Barbara Hendrickson - BIG LOVE
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ajsobrio
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Registered:11/15/2005
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 5:40 AM)
Reply to : NaturalMan
You're right. Its been an eye opener to see things from another perspective. Before I started questioning the church, I was pretty hard on Ryan as far as things had to be my way or the highway. "You won't convert," I said, "we won't be together." That was pretty much the end of the line. My close friend and former roommate dumped her non-member boyfriend of eight months when she realized he'd never join. She didnt mess around. She said something hurtful to really piss him off and make him want to be away from her, and then she cutt him off quickly and effortlessly. There were no strings left attached. She was very cold-hearted about it. Thats how I was in the beginning. He must have been going through some real emotional crap trying to make himself understand this stuff to be with me, and yet, he knew he didnt and couldnt agree with it. Now, the lovely tables of life have turned and it is me going through the real turmoil. I hate having the ball in my court. It would be great to meet with you. Though Ryan and I aren't "together" in the formal sense anymore, I know we would both love to meet with you and Im sure we'd both benefit. Just PM me and let me know when's best for you. Thanks for the support.
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NaturalMan
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:05 AM)
Reply to : ajsobrio
Reply to : NaturalManYou're right. Its been an eye opener to see things from another perspective. Before I started questioning the church, I was pretty hard on Ryan as far as things had to be my way or the highway. "You won't convert," I said, "we won't be together." That was pretty much the end of the line. My close friend and former roommate dumped her non-member boyfriend of eight months when she realized he'd never join. She didnt mess around. She said something hurtful to really piss him off and make him want to be away from her, and then she cutt him off quickly and effortlessly. There were no strings left attached. She was very cold-hearted about it. Thats how I was in the beginning. He must have been going through some real emotional crap trying to make himself understand this stuff to be with me, and yet, he knew he didnt and couldnt agree with it.
I'll talk with LB2 to see when we can meet with you. She is wonderful and has certain insights that vary from mine because her parents are LDS, she is their only daughter and a lot of other reasons.
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"Is this a something? Or... is this a nothing?
Barbara Hendrickson - BIG LOVE
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belaja
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Registered:09/05/2004
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:15 AM)
Reply to : rittermonster06
Hello Everyone,This is Ryan again...I have a very sincere request for everybody, and I mean this with all due respect for the forum that you all have provided here and the veryhonest and intelligent advice that you have given to both of us... It is allvery much appreciated...Both Amber and I have stuggledfor many months, and are continuing to do so including a very rough night that we have just had.Tears, doubts, questions, guilt, frustration, anger... You can undoubtedly recall that the process of discovering a new reality canfeel unbearably difficult at times... This is wherewe areright now. Please try and take yourselves back to the times when you were experiencing all that comes with doubting your religion, and the extremely vulnerable and emotional state you were i
Hey Ryan and Amber--
I am sympathetic to your request and understand, if not your exact situation, then at least the pain that comes from unsuper-gluing yourself from the church. I'm not saying that your request is unreasonable, but perhaps the NOM board would be a better fit for you and (and most especially) Amber right now. There's a different tone there that might be easier on you both. One of the reasons the Foyer was created was so that there would be a place for people to vent or to laugh at things that once held serious sway over their minds. For me it's been healing (at the point I'm at) to be able to do those things. There are lines we don't cross at the Foyer (no racism, no gay-bashing, no politics, no sexism.... wait, strike that last one, that one seems to be OK). However, I think we also have to watch out that we don't start drawing the lines back in so tight that we can't express things that might be freeing and ultimately healing. I don't know if you'll understand this point of view from where you're sitting right now (I don't imagine I would have either), but it's an important stage in moving through all this and the Foyer is a big part of that for me.
Lots of people from the Foyer post at NOM as well and I sort of see the two boards as two points on the same continuum--with ? on beyond the Foyer even. For what it's worth, it just sounds to me more like your situation is still at a tender, sensitive NOM stage.
Please understand, I'm not trying to run you off, and for my part, I'll be just fine if you choose to ignore my opinion. I just would like to make sure the Foyer is kept a little more free-wheeling. I really need that where I'm at right now.
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OK, she"s deranged, but so, so playful.
--Eugene Hutz in "Everything is Illuminated"
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NaturalMan
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:41 AM)
Reply to : belaja
no sexism.... wait, strike that last one, that one seems to be OK).
hey my friend, in the spirit of lightheartedness and loud laughter did you mean sexism... or sex ! hopefully the latter ! 
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"Is this a something? Or... is this a nothing?
Barbara Hendrickson - BIG LOVE
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belaja
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Registered:09/05/2004
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:44 AM)
Reply to : NaturalMan
Reply to : belajano sexism.... wait, strike that last one, that one seems to be OK).hey my friend, in the spirit of lightheartedness and loud laughter did you mean sexism... or sex ! hopefully the latter !
I said what I meant and I meant what I said. (In the spirit of lightheartedness and whatnot....) 
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OK, she"s deranged, but so, so playful.
--Eugene Hutz in "Everything is Illuminated"
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Mayan Elephant
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Registered:07/20/2005
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:46 AM)
Reply to : belaja
Reply to : rittermonster06Hello Everyone,This is Ryan again...I have a very sincere request for everybody, and I mean this with all due respect for the forum that you all have provided here and the veryhonest and intelligent advice that you have given to both of us... It is allvery much appreciated...Both Amber and I have stuggledfor many months, and are continuing to do so including a very rough night that we have just had.Tears, doubts, questions, guilt, frustration, anger... You can undoubtedly recall that the process of discovering a new reality canfeel unbearably difficult at times... This is wherewe areright now. Please try and take yourselves back to the times when you were experiencing all that comes with doubting your religion, and the extremely vulnerable and emotional state you were i
holy shit belaja. i almost fuckin cried.  i swear to god, when i grow up i want to be belaja.  i know it might take a bit of anesthesia and a bit of nipping and tucking to retrain all my premortally assigned spiritparts, but to be belaja - worth it.
well said belaja. i hope i never need to graduate to one of those unfoyer places. damn that must be yucky.
hey amber, i love nom. if i had to pick one or the other - NOM. sorry, but these people over here just have the DSFH potty mouths. seriously, nom is the bomb. they have never kicked me off of there. 
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I"m going to get [The Dangerous Book for Boys and the Dangerous Book for Girls] for our 12 year old daughter.
-Dathon on NOM, 8/25/2007
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belaja
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:50 AM)
Reply to : Mayan Elephant
i know it might take a bit of anesthesia and a bit of nipping and tucking to retrain all my premortally assigned spiritparts, but to be belaja - worth it.
Well, you've never seen me IRL. You might have to eat those words--hell, you might want to eat them with whipped cream and a cherry on top  . (I refer you to the current "paradigm crusher" thread if you have any doubts.) Still, your sentiments warmed the rankles of my heart.... I'd have said cockles, but as a single, Mormon female, I'm not allowed to even TOUCH any of those.
P.S. Amber: I wasn't suggesting we kick you off. If we can tolerate all these elephants lumbering around, we can certainly tolerate you. I'm just saying, that's all...)
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OK, she"s deranged, but so, so playful.
--Eugene Hutz in "Everything is Illuminated"
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Mayan Elephant
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Registered:07/20/2005
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:53 AM)
Reply to : belaja
Reply to : Mayan Elephanti know it might take a bit of anesthesia and a bit of nipping and tucking to retrain all my premortally assigned spiritparts, but to be belaja - worth it.Well, you've never seen me IRL. You might have to eat those words--hell, you might want to eat them with whipped cream and a cherry on top. (I refer you to the current "paradigm crusher" thread if you have any doubts. Still, your sentiments warmed the rankles of my heart.... or, uh, something like that.P.S. Amber: I wasn't suggesting we kick you off. If we can tolerate all these elephants lumbering around, we can certainly tolerate you. I'm just saying, that's all...)
uh oh. good point. i wasnt implying anyone get kicked off, just that, well, i have never been kicked off anything that wasnt called millenialstar.org, sunzubiches.
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I"m going to get [The Dangerous Book for Boys and the Dangerous Book for Girls] for our 12 year old daughter.
-Dathon on NOM, 8/25/2007
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belaja
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 7:32 AM)
Damn, Mayan! It's hard work staying a step ahead of you. I was having an identity crisis for a minute there.
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OK, she"s deranged, but so, so playful.
--Eugene Hutz in "Everything is Illuminated"
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Mayan Elephant
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 7:35 AM)
Reply to : belaja
Damn, Mayan! It's hard work staying a step ahead of you. I was having an identity crisis for a minute there.
some elephants are faster than others.
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I"m going to get [The Dangerous Book for Boys and the Dangerous Book for Girls] for our 12 year old daughter.
-Dathon on NOM, 8/25/2007
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NaturalMan
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 7:40 AM)
Reply to : Mayan Elephant
some elephants are faster than others.
That's a new one on me Mayan. I've never been told that being quick "trunkster" was a good thing.... hmm... learning something new.. 
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"Is this a something? Or... is this a nothing?
Barbara Hendrickson - BIG LOVE
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ajsobrio
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 6:54 PM)
Reply to : belaja
belaja,
thank you for your concern. However, I have to disagree. The foyer has been an awesome place for me and I appreciate the blunt manner in which most things are said. I don't need anyone to hold my hand or breastfeed me through this process. It just seems to me that the foyer can be an awesome place for both of us if everyone can still enjoy the same amount of freedom, however, they can organize their thoughts into corresponding threads. This thread, "the new girl," happens to be about questions of a young woman just now being exposed to information hurtful to the church's reputation. Some of the profanity and other comments have a perfect place in the grab-ass and free play area. Additionally, if someone wanted to start a thread consisting of only those types of posts, it is completely within their discretion to do so. Ryan and I are only asking that on threads reserved for serious and thoughtful conversation, thats what people do. You need a place you can vent and be comedic about the situation. I need a place where I can ask serious and thoughtful (not to mention hard to ask) questions and get serious and thoughtful answers. I'm throwing my heart out there talking to people I dont even know about a very sensitive topic, and I feel that serious answers which are pertinent to the issue at hand is not too much to ask. And so far, for the most part, that's what I've received. We both are at different stages of this process...we both have different needs. I feel that the Foyer can cater to both.
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cumom
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(Date Posted:12/08/2005 10:40 PM)
Reply to : guy sajer
Not to be flippant, but why must life have a "purpose." Can it simply be that we are here as a result of evolutionary "accident?" The odds that anyone of us were born are almost infinte. If our parents had conceived on the next night, it wouldn't have been us. Our specific genetic programming was found on one sperm and one egg that had a short life span and very small odds of ever uniting.
I think this is a great question. Perhaps this suggests a simple reframing of the way we approach the idea of "purpose." Life in general doesn't have a purpose (other than its own self-referential reproduction), but human beings with our overloaded skulls seem to need to come up with one. I think in general the problem is that we try to come up with collective purposes and then we impose our purposes on others or kill them if they challenge the answer our group has come up with. But the quest for a meaningful life itself may simply be the basic ingredient of what it is to be a human with an overdeveloped cerebellum. In any case, that quest for meaning is what makes studying the humanities rewarding (although I often get impatient when they make claims they can't support with evidence and reason, but that's just my evil inner social scientist).
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"The ocean refuses no river."
Sheila Chandra, from "Ever So Lonely"
my blog: Todd"s Hammer
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