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Title: Is the whole thing a sham?
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Registered: 06/04/2001

(Date Posted:07/11/2006 12:20 AM)
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$%*'`[montec]%*'`@Since we know - or have had confirmed - what we do now, many other pieces of the CAI-jigsaw-puzzle begin to fall into place. Think about it. The new "male member" (sorry...) is brought intoawholelifestyle..Thesaunas, the plunge pool, the massage nights, the concerted and specific efforts at converting gaymen but obvious avoidance ofother possibilitieslike prisons or other ministries; the frequent 'skinny-dipping' frolics of the men (or in the snow if no sea/river available) the (and I quote ASW) ''marriage of ASW and Michy'' before the assembly (previous to Michy officially taking on ASW's surname), the oppresssion of women to a level not seen even in the Bible; the wife of ASW very, very, very rarely ever seen in a cell meeting on account of the mountains of housework she has to do, etc (main meeting out of the question). The allegations of homosexual advances coming from the man in question, dating way back to the early 1990's at least.Seems to me like this kind of thing hasbeen present throughout the years. The first converts? Two strapping 14/15 year old Greman lads in swimming trunks with 6-packs which the average guy would be jealous of.Is it me, or is there a bit of a pattern here? It didn't happen to me physically, but I tell you I don't half feel like I've been bent over a barrell and shafted!Does this mean then (assuming all of these tendencies were rooted in ASW's weakness) that the personal admin of CAI will now change to preclude naked saunas and massage nights? Or are all of these things just co-incidences and nothing to do with ASW's own character instead of to do with God? Or will it just change slightly? A bit of gayness, but not quite as much? If you are a 'straight' malein the CAI todayand the still continue with these activities - will you only be bendingdown to pick up the soap as long as there's a wall behind you?It all brings so many questions abut the past and the future doesn't it?
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:07/11/2006 1:25 AM)

I hope not. I have been in the CAI for well over a decade, and this whole thing tears me apart. Surely the whole thing could not have been a sham? I have seen too many good things to believe that.

But I am at a crossroads. How to proceed from here? Which way to turn? What is the biblical thing to do? There are so many good things about the assembly, yet this has ripped at the very heart of it.  I do not want to turn my back on so many good people, so many people that I love. Yet how to proceed?

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bridges burnt
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Registered:26/09/2006


(Date Posted:07/11/2006 1:41 AM)

Reply to : montec [Anonymous]


 the (and I quote ASW) 'marriage of ASW and Michy' before the assembly (previous to Michy officially taking on ASW's surname),

Spot on, old chap or chapette! I believe the short answer is YES! All a sham to cover up ASWs homsexuality, maybe he got saved into the revival centres to try and redeem himself from it, but then, being a egotictic, narcissistic, deluded individual desperately seeking love and attention thought, hey, Im onto a good thing here. Young German men, loyal to a fault, here we go, here we go, here we go.....

So, its all developed from there, spiritualised, scriptualised, okayised.

And the carnage he has left in his wake...homosexual men in loveless marriages, unsuspecting wives told its all their fault, straight men (victims) forced into acts they found despicable.  The lying, deceipt, cover up..and the pretence that they are Christians?????ROFL

Then there's the fraud, theft, extortion....the Mercedes, Rolex watches, holidays..but that's a topic for a new thread

Oh yeah, Montec, believe this is true about the marriage thing, I didnt hear about this (that Scott said it was a marriage). Can you put a time and context on this??

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"Once you"ve crossed over there"s no turning back, once that burning bridge is gone"
Alison Krauss

bridges burnt
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Posts:69
Registered:26/09/2006


(Date Posted:07/11/2006 1:55 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

I hope not. I have been in the CAI for well over a decade, and this whole thing tears me apart. Surely the whole thing could not have been a sham? I have seen too many good things to believe that.But I am at a crossroads. How to proceed from here? Which way to turn? What is the biblical thing to do? There are so many good things about the assembly, yet this has ripped at the very heart of it. I do not want to turn my back on so many good people, so many people that I love. Yet how to proceed?

Hey Anonymous! It sounds like you're still in the CAI, if that's so, I hear where you're coming from. We've all been at the stage you've been at, wondering could it REALLY BE THAT BAD? Well, sadly, it IS that bad, but the good part is that the Bible really isnt a part of this at all, so you dont have to fear that you are doing something wrong by leaving. At this stage the best thing is to try and find out the FACTS (= the truth will set you free). That includes talking to people who have left and find out why. Trust your own conscience (= the Holy Spirit in your mind, NOT satan) which is probably bugging you, and bugging you that somethings not right....

Well, you are RIGHT about the people in the CAI, most of them are sincere, loyal, trusting, people and that's why they got taken in by Scott and his distorted biblical view. But think about those people you love and trust, maybe some who have left, and know that will tell you the truth..what do they gain by making up stories and lying?? The best thing you can do for the people you love, is get the truth, leave and try and help as many as possible. You dont need to turn your back you need to extend your hand when you're strong enough to help.

Here's mine....email me (fully anonymous) if you need any specific help or if you want to ask anything..keep asking and dont be afraid..you will get to the truth.

bb

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"Once you"ve crossed over there"s no turning back, once that burning bridge is gone"
Alison Krauss

Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:07/11/2006 9:17 AM)

$%*'`[joan of arc]%*'`@

Reply to : bridges burnt & anonymos

.... below is post pasted from other topic ..... read it and spin your own line ...... or version .......

re ASW: everything is a sham! He's like Nebucadnezzar or King Cyrus - just a tool to reach people - never judging or applying it to himself ... and anyway: he's a liar - BUT ALWAYS PUTS A LITTLE TRUTH INTO HIS LIES .....

re God: He answered prayers prayed by genuine people. Any miracles were NOT confirmation that ASW is the one with 48 channels from God (anyway - 35 constantly blocked - 10 for homosexual gratification - 3 for manipulative ideas and inventions .... - God - probably been knocking on his door for years ...... ) ... but rather God keeping His promises to them and giving them hope and love ...... nothing to do with ASW.

****************************************************************************

How about starting a doco-soap-drama-comedy, Title: "ASW and the 4th Reich" ..... or: "How I single-handedly recovered lost ground (the ground the Germans lost) - and brought the master-race plan back on track ... by ASW" ..... or: "How to dupe Governments and Educational Authorities by ASW" ....or: "The paedophile poofter's guide to creating a ?matrix' in everyone else's mind (in 5 years) ... by ASW (who did it in 3)" ....... Surely there are many more suggestions - ask the readers.

fficeffice" /> 

Contributions: All readers can ?spin' this tale and post what might or might not, allegedly, hearsay, invented, conceivably has been experienced by them or any other persons. Parts beside Caesar could be: Goebbels = Benny K., Himmler = Michy, Laurel & Hardy (Dick & Doof) = George B. & Andrew V., Three Stooges = Martin, Steve, Gunther,  ...... and many more.

 

Setting: Caesar (before he was Caesar - he was just a lowly teacher in the Eastern part of the Empire) has been a naughty boy - and was caught frolicking too close to comfort with his pupils (exchanging fluids perhaps). Afraid to be exposed, his ?Spirit Guide' suggests to move into the Western part of the Empire - where ?knackige / succulent' lads are waiting to be ?guided' in the way of the ?Willy-World'. A good orator, lot's of letters and titles after his name, he manages to set himself up as a ?fisher of fools', re-tracing the inception / development / growth / and spread of the NAZI ideology with his brand of spirituality and message: "Sex is only sex when .... Anyway, do you want to come and have a look at my stamp collection tonight? Don't worry - the old hag wont disturb us - even better, she's going to serve us some hot soup and toast .... "

 

Sub-plot: The bribing of many by ?covering their sins' ..... Some of the actors mentioned above would have to start to cook their own meals and to ?slap their own donkey / wank / self-gratify' their member - if their wives found out all that has been ?covered by Caesar's Love'!!!

 

Sub-plot: Perhaps ?Himmler' was a rent-boy, and when the heavens opened for both in ffice:smarttags" />Cornwall - well, heavens wasn't the only thing that opened? Maybe rent-boy took a few polaroids in awkward situations and the ?meteoric' rise to fame / control and glory was unstoppable? And why has rent-boy let himself be circumcised - supposedly it's also helpful to avoid the spread of sexual diseases? Should followers of ?The Other Great Spirit' really be worried - if they're faithful to their wives?

 

Tricky bit: How to make it believable to the reader that: Caesar can combine searching out sexy youths - have all men shave their beards off (always the need for ?baby-faced' sexiness) - control how & when they have sex with their wives - demand disciples to live a pure life - rip their heads off and send the women to hell when they stuff up an assembly cooking recipe - announce the biggest cold-hearted two-faced bitch to be the ?mother of the assembly' (his wife) - make any fornication and adultery ?disappear by the wave of his magic wand' -  etc .... Whilst all the while THUNDERING from his throne purity, repentance, love, trust & obedience, and "....on judgement day you will be called before me - you better make me VERY happy here - so I can give a good account about you ........"

That performance should be worth a few Oscars alone, plus best adaptation, best supporting actors, best new kid on the block ......

 

Anyway - there's sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much scope, everyone can expand and add to his / her hearts content .....

 

S.o.D.

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anon1
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Registered:20/09/2006


(Date Posted:07/11/2006 12:21 PM)

Hello Anonymous

- I know how it feels to be at the edge of thinking of leaving etc....  it's really hard,  but don't be afraid 

  •  you won't burn in Hell
  • you won't  suddenly be all bitter and  go bad and mental/off the rails and out of control
  • you won't die in a car crash, Earth Quake etc
  • God won't reject you
  • You can join another church if you want - you will not be cast into Hell for "leaving the church you were 'born in' "

Remember,  consider your 'walk' relative to Scott etc.   I remember being rebuked severly for the most simple stupidities/failures.   I was threatened with the danger of Hell-fire and the WHOLE of my walk was worthless in the eyes of God if I didn't TRULY repent.  By the same judgement,  Scott and his pissy excuse/repentance (?) is pure hypocrisy.  He has no authority over you or other members, you owe him nothing.  All his years of (decite) ..... all that dedicating his life totally to the Church, to the work, setting an example, setting the teaching, what ever the supposed hardships  - COUNTS FOR NOTHING. 

We/You like every other member, have sacrificed a lot ourselves for the assembly,  we owe him or the church nothing.   I stayed a long time in the Assembly myself I think mainly because of the fellowship and friendship.  There are definitely some very good things in the CAI - it wasn't 'all evil' - Scott did manage to get a few things right.  But as said,  you don't owe him anything - not anymore. 

You are free to cast off the yoke of the repression of the CAI.

Take courage,  it's hard to make the jump to leave, but don't worry there's plently of us who have and made it.

Take care  (it's your own life, not Scott's).

   /Anon1

     

 

 

 

 

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It"s never too late to leave. Even if yon"ve been in the Assembly a long time.

Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:07/11/2006 8:38 PM)

Hi bb,

What I am conflicted about is the following; in the bible the only example I can find for sexual sin of a leader was that of King David. King David did have to repent, but did not lose his position as king.

Thus - biblically is this not example that could be used in Scott's particular case? Likewise there are many scriptures about forgiveness and restoration.

I have people depending on me to make the right decision - and I want to make sure whatever I decide is based only on the bible.

Could you please post your thoughts on all of this from a biblical perspective. I am NOT interested in slander, sarcasm or mocking. I just want to know what the bible says on all of this.

Anon.

PS What is your email address?

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 3:47 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous



Hi bb,What I am conflicted about is the following; in the bible the only example I can find for sexual sin of a leader was that of King David. King David did have to repent, but did not lose his position as king.Thus - biblically is this not example that could be used in Scott's particular case? Likewise there are many scriptures about forgiveness and restoration.I have people depending on me to make the right decision - and I want to make sure whatever I decide is based only on the bible.Could you please post your thoughts on all of this from a biblical perspective. I am NOT interested in slander, sarcasm or mocking. I just want to know what the bible says on all of this.Anon.PS What is your email address?





Numbers 32:23:- "ye have sinned against the LORD; and be sure your sin will find you out"
One consequence of Scott's sin is reproach upon the CAI.

anonymous

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 7:37 AM)

I agree. But what should my response be according to the bible?

 

Anon.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 9:18 AM)

$%*'`[Free]%*'`@Reply to : Anonymous

I agree. But what should my response be according to the bible?Anon.

Hi Anon,

Wow - where to start... you've asked some pretty big questions here. I'll have a crack at answering a few of them:

Yes - if Scott truly repented, then the King David example would fly. However he's not yet done this, but has glossed over many facts and is hiding as much as possible. If he truly did discuss everything, apologise, repent, get help etc etc etc - then many people would probably come back that have left and he could save the assembly from its current path of destruction, but unfortunately, thus far it does not appear that Scott (plus Michy and others) are interested in doing this. I honestly wish they would!

 

Scripturally, (there are loads of examples) try 1 Timothy 5:22 or Ephesians 5:3-7

[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[7] Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

So basically, as long as Scott/Michy et al remain unrepentant - you HAVE to leave. Else you are partaking in their sin. The verses also warn about being decieved by the words of such sexually immoral people... if you recall Scotts 'confession' he simply said that it wasnt that bad and that it "takes two to tango" (what he said word for word). Now if someone is raped - and the rapists defence is that it takes two to tango, I am not seeing a repentant person. (For the record - I was also a victim of Scott, and while I have forgiven him, he has not contacted me or shown any signs of remorse or wanting to reconcile or repent)

Also maybe take a look at 1 Corinthians 5 (specifically 9-13 where we are warned to not even eat with a sexually immoral brother, let alone serve them!)

I want to avoid going off on a tangent, so it would probably be easier to discuss this topic if you fired off specific questions although I understand how confusing it can be when all you know are assembly doctrines (many of which are false). But whatever you decide to do - please take heart because we're all promised that:

Romans 8:[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So even if it is wrong to leave the assembly (which it is not) you will NOT burn in hell for it PERIOD. Leaving the assembly is not an unforgivable sin (its not a sin at all!), and the CAI has no power to separate you from the love of Jesus.

 

Praying for you (and many other old friends still trapped in the CAI),

Free

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klopperr
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Registered:27/09/2006


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 4:44 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

I hope not. I have been in the CAI for well over a decade, and this whole thing tears me apart. Surely the whole thing could not have been a sham? I have seen too many good things to believe that.But I am at a crossroads. How to proceed from here? Which way to turn? What is the biblical thing to do? There are so many good things about the assembly, yet this has ripped at the very heart of it. I do not want to turn my back on so many good people, so many people that I love. Yet how to proceed?

 

exactly the same here...  am also at the corssroads somehow. many things appear in a totally new light. sadly. and yet what about leaving the assemblies file (i DONT mean to condemn those who have left, but as they themselves know much attention is put on that particular file. what to do with it? it sounds so convincing). pls dont take it as anything personal! am genuinly perplaxed.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 5:15 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous



I agree. But what should my response be according to the bible?Anon.





David was nevr really fully restored if you closely read the text. First he lost his illegitimate child and then the next consequence was " the sword shall never depart from thine house" and thirdly "I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of the sun, for thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the Sun"... So David was never really fully restored to what he had before he fell to sin and David had to carry his reproach for the rest of his life. David's sin had its consequences and some damage could never be undone. So understand this: what ASW had before his sin will never be the same again, even if he is restored as a Pastor. And that block of 60 disaffected folk who left will never return. As the truth continues to unfold, more will leave and so it will never be the same again for ASW no matter how he goes about it.. Sure ASW may find repentance before God but the consequences may carry for many years after.

anonymous
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klopperr
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(Date Posted:08/11/2006 5:24 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

David was nevr really fully restored if you closely read the text. First he lost his illegitimate child and then the next consequence was " the sword shall never depart from thine house" and thirdly "I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of the sun, for thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the Sun"... So David was never really fully restored to what he had before he fell to sin and David had to carry his reproach for the rest of his life. David's sin had its consequences and some damage could

 

how will the truth be unfolded, if the "fussvolk" is shielded so well from any outside influence or info?

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 5:45 PM)

Reply to : klopperr



how will the truth be unfolded, if the "fussvolk" is shielded so well from any outside influence or info?





God has this all under control and it would be best to leave it with God. Even if you have no faith in the supernatural, the supernatural will rule the play and the truth will eventually come out... Just put your trust in God in this situation as God already has His answer to it

anonymous
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klopperr
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Registered:27/09/2006


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 6:28 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

God has this all under control and it would be best to leave it with God. Even if you have no faith in the supernatural, the supernatural will rule the play and the truth will eventually come out... Just put your trust in God in this situation as God already has His answer to itanonymous

thats the only thing i can do. am feeling a bit lost, but keeping the faith and praying about it all. if only the assembly could change itself from within.

reports that are coming in about the whole situation are very conflicting - first this strange confession, then something that people were trying to speak to the guys concerned but they refused, did not want to, ran away...  the picture is very one-sided and i would ve wished to hear what they have to say.. but am afraid they are branded as "bad-bad" and the whole thing is a no-go area.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 7:03 PM)

To "free".

It grieves me to hear that you have not been apologised to and therefore have the matter sorted out.

Please get in touch with Scott directly, and give him the chance to repent and apologise to you. I believe that he does want to clear everything up and set whatever he can write. Please do so, for both of your sakes.

 

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Zippy12345
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(Date Posted:08/11/2006 7:11 PM)

 

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 7:13 PM)

Hi Klopper,

There have been many heavy accusations posted on this board in the last few days, many I think are simply not true.

Please get in touch directly with those people who have been accused here (Benny, Michy etc) - and ask them straight out what they have done and been involved in - that way you will have more to go on than simply guesses and accusations.

Anon.

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anon1
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Registered:20/09/2006


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 7:51 PM)

Hello Anonymous

sorry, but  from the previous post:  ..... 

"Please get in touch with Scott directly, and give him the chance to repent and apologise to you. I believe that he does want to clear everything up and set whatever he can write. Please do so, for both of your sakes.""

.  (Date Posted: 10/11/2006 03:03:42 AM )

Free does not need to involve themself again with Scott - EVER.

'Free' is not under ANY OBLIGATION to clear the matter up.  Free has forgiven  Scott -  END OF STORY.   Free's  'sake' /soul    is ....er well  free !!!    

REMEMBER - It was Scott who committed the offence/sin.... it is he who has to forgive.  Forgiveness will I believe be given if asked of Free.

Scott  has the personal contact details of all members and ex-members, without too much work,  his conscience will help him contact the people he needs to ask forgiveness from.    With a little prayer, I'm sure his memory will let him know exactly who he needs to contact.... He's clever enough and has preached many years about how to repent....    he's was always very keen to see others feeling remorse and repenting when I was in the Assembly.   He knows exactly what is required of himself.

Free does not need to offer the 'olive branch' to Scott.    Scott does not need any help from the victims of his abuse.  He has his 'bundshaft' close friends who are supposed to help him - that's what the teaching about male-friends was all about. someone you trust and  who will kick your arse when you're heading in the wrong direction etc.etc....   Anonymous  - it was unfair of you to put pressure on existing/ex members to ask them to help Scott.  Giving Scott a chance like this, will only give him an opportunity to keep people under his physcological control again.  It will not help Scott at all - it will only feed his need for control over the fussfolk - he will only think that he's getting away with it. He won't truly repent.

Let him confess.   Let Scott write publically on this site .... I imagine he is fully aware of what is written here. 

 

Hi Free' - PLEASE  DO NOT GET IN TOUCH WITH SCOTT DIRECTLY - it is your life, you have forgiven Scott - he has nothing to do with you anymore.   You don't need to risk yourself with him again. But if Scott contacts you,  give him a chance to explain/confess.  I will when he approaches me.

Rgds

  Anon1

 

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It"s never too late to leave. Even if yon"ve been in the Assembly a long time.

Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 8:32 PM)

$%*'`[Voice in the Desert]%*'`@Reply to : Free [Anonymous]

I fully agree with Free and his comments above.

I also wrote to Scott after explaining all what happened between us and he never replied. He sent a "confession" to all the church 24 hours later, but no reply to my message. In the mean time he is telling everybody that my messages contained truth, half truth and lies. He has not dared replying or phoning or anything, but he told my friend (who is still in the CAI) that he had apologised... so I wonder how he will prove this on Judgement Day.

2 days after I sent him my letter with full proof and facts about his homosexuality/Pederasty, Scott Wyles phoned me and told me that 'Scott is now fully repentant as he is really sad and if there would be a scripture in the whole Bible where he commit suicide, then he would do it". That's all the proof of his repentance he could bring. But then I explained and proved to Scott Wyles that Scott was NOT repentant as one can clearly see in his "confession". He has a lot of worldly sorrow (and I can understand why) but Godly sorrow is different. If he would be repentant he would do his uttermost to draw a list of all the person he has abused and would strive to reconcile/apologise with each one of them. But instead he is justifying himself and proclaims himself as repentant (quite suspicious when someones says about himself that he is repentant!) as he wants to avoid confrontation and judgement. He wants the easy way... he does not want to be chastised or judged by elders according to the Bible.

Hebrews 12:8 (KJV)
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Scott knows that he went too far when he sent his confession and that's people his "cardinals" then told the 3 that Scott should have never sent this confession to the assembly. He and they know that Scott can go to jail for all what he did.

Scott mentioned also in his confession that he has "approached" all the people concerned over the years:

"It is to be noted that I have/had already approached the people concerned and affected by my actions (over many years)."

Scott is a liar when he says this as you have already 2 persons who have not been contacted... and there are many more who have are still in CAI and others who have left CAI. Not withstanding the fact that "approached" does not implicated that there has been any apology.

That's where I showed to Scott Wyles, amongst with other things, that Scott was just lying and he IS NOT repentant. Scott Wyles told me about a testimony whereas the Lord showed him that he need to care for the overseer. If he would really care for his overseer's soul he would simply tell him the truth and stop being a YES man. Who of Scott's KG and RG would tell Scott that he is not repentant. They don't have the courage and the fear of God for that.

When you talk to some of his high officers they tell you that "You need 2 to tango". But where do you see this in the Bible. Those guys never danced tango before and would realise that in tango, you always have one who leads and the other which submits. These are the guys who support the offender and don't care about the victims. These are the guys who would not understand why a little girl would submit to incest with her father. They don't understand that a little girl wants to please her father and see him happy, and may come to a point where she is ready to make compromise to her conscience in order to please her father who might become iritated. They don't understand the authority behind this relationship and where the abuse comes from. They either don't care or they like it. Or they might be afraid about the truth and tell their wives... if they wives would ask they would get angry. They don't have the balls to stand and tell the truth because they think that their wives are not worthy enough to know and would not understand. Poor deluded guys, who discredit their own flesh and the vows of their wedding. They will have a shock on Judgement Day.

So I left also the assembly for the same reason as Free mentioned above. Look at the "Changing Assemblies" theme sheet and you will see they use the following for "Heathendom - Sects or so-called "Christian" Church:

GAL 1:7-8 "...but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
2.COR 6:14-17 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers ... And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate."
REV 18:4 "Come out of her (Babylon), my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins." (cf. ISA 52:11; JER 50:8).

Well that applies also for CAI as you can see from above as well!!! But they would not tell you that of course. We don't leave CAI because we don't like the life style, etc... but because their leaders are a bounch of LIARS and deceivers!!!!! They lie to themselves as I have done so also for many years. They also say in their file that only God can deal directly with the overseer and they give the example of David who would not killed the king Saul (1.SAM 24:6-9)... but they would not read the verse 4 which shows clearly that there had been already a prophecy where God would deliver Saul to David to do unto him as it pleased David. Read verse 4 and it is very clear... and David then chose not to touch Saul. But those guys won't tell you of course that David fled from Saul to escape and save his life... they won't tell you also that many soldiers and people left Saul and followed David. So were those guys wrong to leave Saul???

One of the CAI officers asked me: "how come you mentioned all these sexual problems just now and not before"

Well, to say the truth, it was down in my heart for many many years but I always forced myself to think that it was not an issue as I feared to think evil against my overseer. I thought that it was wrong to question what my overseer did or said. But I got my eyes opened when I learnt with proves that Scott had done oral sex with many people and that what he tried on my (and thank God I had the courage to say "no") was not to "test" people but because he had an obvious tendency with homosexuality. When I asked Scott why he asked me to do this, he said that "it was to test me". It is after I prayed about this later that it downed on me and the pieces of the puzzles started to fit together. There is so much to say here but I will stop here.

So please, read again your Bible and you will see that you can leave such a Church where the truth is not preached but hidden from his members, where the pastors abuse their authority and don't want to be accountable for their sins.

We pray for you and if you need help don't hesitate to ask. Be strong and of good courage.


ViD
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 10:58 PM)

$%*'`[Free]%*'`@Reply to : Anonymous

To "free".It grieves me to hear that you have not been apologised to and therefore have the matter sorted out.Please get in touch with Scott directly, and give him the chance to repent and apologise to you. I believe that he does want to clear everything up and set whatever he can write. Please do so, for both of your sakes.

I actually did try - but Scott would not take my call...

As others have mentioned, I was told the same story, ie that Scott's had repented and was in tears etc etc. As I'd not been in contact with the assembly for a while, it was a shock to hear how brainwashed people are, even when you have them on the phone. I admire loyalty, but not when it is blind.

Free

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:08/11/2006 11:03 PM)

Reply to : anon1

Hello Anonymoussorry, but from the previous post: ....."Please get in touch with Scott directly, and give him the chance to repent and apologise to you. I believe that he does want to clear everything up and set whatever he can write. Please do so,for both of your sakes."". (Date Posted:10/11/2006 03:03:42 AM )Free does not need to involve themself again with Scott - EVER.'Free'is not under ANY OBLIGATIONto clear the matter up.Freehas forgiven Scott - END OF STORY. Free's 'sake'/soul is ....er well free !!!REMEMBER- It was S
Thanks for your concern anon1 I should probably have taken this advice before I troubled myself when I first heard about this nasty situation. But, as I mentione above, I did try to make contact because I was worried about Scott soul (perhaps misplaced concern, but it was there nevertheless).
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anon1
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Posts:156
Registered:20/09/2006


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 12:01 AM)

Hey  Anonymous

- thanks for the reply - hopefully I wasn't too over-the-top with my reply.    When stuck on the verge of  leaving/staying/all-mixed-up  etc  it's really hard on a person.  I think the other posts pretty much  clarify exactly what the situation is with Scott and his 'repentance' (so called).  He hasn't -  ViD by the way also makes  makes an excellent case for the condemnation of the senior officers as well - nicely written ViD.   IT IS A SHAM.... how dare they preach    to us !!  Sick! 

My point is as a normal member, it so easy to get sucked back into the 'official' story and reasoning/edicts/cirectives  etc  from PHQ/EHQ etc.  

It's so hard to think straight when your cell/area-leader is telling you the 'story'  warning you not to fall away, to listen to the lies outside the assembly etc....    it's so hard to think straight and reason objectively when you've been conditioned to accept the strict regime of the CAI.  

Hopefully normal members are feeling liberated to explore this forum, read,  take courage to be brave and listen to their hearts.   By God it's hard  but there is hope for all (even Scott but I don#t hold out much for him personally).    Anyway,  hopefully it is obvious now that  they the members/we no longer need to feel obliged to offer help to Scott.  He is fully responsible for his actions. It is his responsibility (esp. as an overseer) to deal with his own Sin.  Members who have been wronged by Scott or for that matter anyone else;  will have to deal with the hurt and will hopefully be able to forgive Scott.   Not an easy thing to do.

Forgiveness - if Scott has broken the law  i.e.  'has been involved with 'minors' ; abused people, or committed fraud;  he should still face secular law - and be judged.   Forgiveness doesn't mean he should escape justice, but that should be a different post.... maybe a groug or a union be created to help members bring/consolidate evidence etc to bring Scott to Trial.....  I am not volunteering (!)  - I have not the position to do so and am far removed from cellgroups, and am not in Australia.... 

Personally, I so didn't want to leave the assembly  when I was still in it.... all those years... I couldn't have made such a silly mistake in joining the assembly...    in hindsight this forum at the time when I left would have helped immensely --- there was so little information then.  This is really a blessed place for people to come think and discuss.

Take care all - these are horrible times for members.  Don't give up,

 

Rgds

 

  Anon1

 

 

 

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It"s never too late to leave. Even if yon"ve been in the Assembly a long time.

klopperr
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Posts:26
Registered:27/09/2006


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 11:12 AM)

Reply to : anon1

Hey Anonymous- thanks for the reply- hopefully I wasn't too over-the-top with my reply. When stuck on the verge of leaving/staying/all-mixed-up etc it's really hard on a person. I think the other posts pretty much clarify exactly what the situation is with Scott and his 'repentance' (so called).He hasn't - ViD by the wayalso makes makes an excellent case for the condemnation of the senior officers as well - nicely written ViD. IT IS A SHAM.... how dare they preachto us !! Sick!My point is as a normal member, it so easy to get sucked back into the 'official' story and reasoning/edicts/cirectives etc from PHQ/EHQ etc.It's so

what a post - a stand 100 per cent behind it. I have not left the assembly , despite many things. I remember the original cultweb, where the issue of potential homosexuality was discussed, and I rejected this up front. Now we discover that these were not empty words. Who  knows what else is there still hiding?

I will NEVER condemn those who have left, and I will miss them and pray for them. I do nto believe they will burn in hell just because they chose to go, and despite all I hear about them, I can still make up my own mind. It is your PERSONAL relationship with Jesus that counts!

I have not left because I still want to seek God. Let Scott sort his sin out - that has not much to do with me. He will be judged by God Allmighty, just like each and everyone of us. If he has not repented - let it be his problem. I do not fall for brainwashing though, and will not allow in my presence any mud slinging at the names of those who have left.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 12:27 PM)

Reply to : klopperr



I have not left because I still want to seek God




do you think that those who have left are not seeking God anymore?
When I left I dedeided to keep on seeking God! under the control of Scott Williams and his nazimentality you can't really follow God!
If God would tell you to do this or that try to put your Idea throuh, you will see how you can be led by the holy spirit under the control of Scott Williams. Bonne chance !
I rather belive you have build up your life in CAI and you are afraid of facing the truth that you where caugth by an homosexual leader who does not want to give up his lust and life for Jesus - and in the end you will be are parttaker! How can anybody follow a teather who has used his authority to abuse young boys wich have put all their trust in their "overseer"...
Well he hasn't done it once....
Imagine it was your son
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 1:25 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Hi bb,What I am conflicted about is the following; in the bible the only example I can find for sexual sin of a leader was that of King David. King David did have to repent, but did not lose his position as king.Thus - biblically is this not example that could be used in Scott's particular case? Likewise there are many scriptures about forgiveness and restoration.I have people depending on me to make the right decision - and I want to make sure whatever I decide is based only on the bible.Could you please post your thoughts on all of this from a biblical perspective. I am NOT interested in slander, sarcasm or mocking. I just want to know what the bible says on all of this.Anon.PS What is your email address?

Dear Anonymous, re your question about the only comparable sexual sin in OT by King David; I believe there are grievous differences between David's situation and what ASW has done - AND IS DOING! See the following:

fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> 

King David                                                        ASW

 

- stayed home from war                                      - has never been in a war - only rumours

- was tempted by seeing Bathsheba naked          - NO man in CAI has tempted ASW - HE

                                                                          searched out the weak victims or perverts.

- invited Bathsheba and committed adultery          - invited / forced / persuaded MANY men &                                                                        boys to ENDURE his perverse lusts

- tried to cover up by ordering her husband           - try to cover up by telling people HE had   

  to return from war - in the hope he would             their ?salvation in his hand' . Everyone       

  have sex with her                                              dragged before him on judgement day -                                                                better make him happy here

- didn't work - ordered the murder of Uriah            - ordered men like Benny to ?break in' the

                                                                          teenage boys in preparation for personal

                                                                          service to the ?overseer'

- married Bathsheba - pregnant                           - ordered homosexual men to get married -                                                                         to cover up their sex drive ....

- God sent prophet Nathan - told parable -           - his homosexuality was always hidden, first  

  ASKED DAVID TO PRONOUNCE                       time EXPOSED in 11 page letter by high   

  HIS OWN JUDGEMENT .....                               officers - one of them victim since 14y old  

  David commands: As the Lord liveth -                - absolute denial, character defamation and   

  This man shall SURELY DIE ....                          lies of everyone who exposes his evilness   

- Read: 2 Samuel 12: 9 - 12 .... Judgement         - Michy involves himself to cover up all  

  David                                                                corruption  - satanic helper ......

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 1:32 PM)

$%*'`[majorly pissed off ....]%*'`@Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : AnonymousHi bb,What I am conflicted about is the following; in the bible the only example I can find for sexual sin of a leader was that of King David. King David did have to repent, but did not lose his position as king.Thus - biblically is this not example that could be used in Scott's particular case? Likewise there are many scriptures about forgiveness and restoration.I have people depending on me to make the right decision - and I want to make sure whatever I decide is based only on the bible.Could you please post your thoughts on all of this from a biblical perspective. I am NOT interested in slander, sarcasm or mocking. I just want to know what the bible says on all of this.Anon.PS What is your email address?

- David repents - he shall NOT die - but               - Only after a letter arrives, exposing his evilfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>

  the fruit of his evilness was to DIE!                       Actions against one member - ASW tells                                                                               half-truths, half confessions - more lies -                                                                                       arrogant lies to the CAI in Orara Hall

- God struck the child, was very sick and died      - ASW has caused all working members of   

  on the seventh day.                                                    to work hard ?feed him, his extravagant                                                                                          lifestyle, pay for properties which are                                                                                          useless for most parts of the year - and

                                                                                         only swallow up time / money and work!-

- from then on he had a cursed family life             - even now: no repentance, no sorry for the                                                                                          damage he caused boys / married men &                                                                                          women, abusing the Lord's money for                                                                                          himself, and STILL practicing his perverse

                                                                                         homosexuality .....

- David only affected 2 people                                  - ASW introduced abomination into church,                                                                                         covers it with the help of Michy, Benny, and                                                                                         the other bastards - all SO God-fearing!                                                                                         And affected hundreds of lives in the CAI                                                                                                              and unknown amount of souls outside in the                                                                                        world - I wouldn't be surprised if he had                                                                                      male prostitutes whilst in ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Hawaii or on                                                                                           cruises - that is presumption, until facts                                                                                         have been uncovered.

 

If ASW would be God-fearing at all, all these points would have been admitted, exposed and repented of BY HIMSELF - without any outside pressure like this current split ..... and he would have resigned properly - without any expectance of retaining any sort of leadership. God's officers are honourable, the office of a pastor (shepherd) is one of trust - NOT BY RANK - by TRUST!!!!!! He has ABUSED THAT TRUST for over 20 years !!!! Flee from him, he has NOT repented, and is only re-arranging his affairs to be not found out so easily anymore ....... LIAR

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 1:34 PM)

Scott might be crying and repentant - but I sure its not because of what he has done but because he got caught out !!!!
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Voice in the Desert
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Posts:57
Registered:22/09/2006


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 1:53 PM)

Reply to : klopperr

You can still follow God outside of CAI. You don't need to be in CAI to keep searching God... on the opposite.

For your interest:

Ezekiel 33:1-9 (KJV)
1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

It is really good to realise already that there is some corruption in CAI... but it is better in God's sight to speak up the truth instead of letting people like Scott "sort his sin out". They won't let you "sort your sin out" and God wants to use people who stand for the truth (like prophets) and speak it loud. Read again Ezekiel 34:

Ezekiel 34:3-4 (KJV)
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

That's what Mr Michy is doing with his extra big offerings, MSO (= big O divided into 12; quite decieving, isn't it!) in order to pay back the loan for PHQ faster... not to pay it back within 15 or 20 years but to pay it back much faster. He has never been a missionary on his own, working hard with his wife and kids and paying all the taxes he has himself brought... He doesn't know what it means to pay himself for broken car, or new washing machine, etc... He just has to send an OLE message and ask for a new machine and no worries mate!... We can not go to our bosses and ask him for more money because our washing machine has suddenly broken, or petrol prices has trippled for the last 5 years, or there is a new GV organised in Tunbuktu for each officers to go there (or else!). This guy doesn't care if you can pay or not your offerings as long as you pay the minimum and they can pay back all the loan faster... so, as he said himself, he can save up a lot of money with these MSO and extra offerings. He is more important for him to save up money than to see the people suffer financially and they can't save up for their kids, retirement,family and future.

I had Scott on the phone and explained to him how Michy is not personal with people and he doesn't understand how people can struggle (financially and other). And Scott admitted that, and said that Michy still has an other 5 years before he can be an Overseer!!! Good luck for those remaining in the CAI as they will obey and follow Michy who has also commited sexual things with Scott. You wonder why Scott likes to surround himself with people like Benny and Michy...? I challenge you to study their past! Why don't you ask them what they did with Scott in the upper room at Cornwall when they came back... ask them what they did physically.

Let Scott send Michy in a new country with his family and pay all the bloody exagerated offerings they have brought, and pay his taxes, and get all the money to go to AGMs, GVs, area meetings, etc.... Let him know the real life like a normal member of the CAI. Oh! he might tell you: "when I came into the assembly I was workind and paid my bills, blablabla"... but he has not done this for long and with a family and he is really out of space now. Let them buy their rolex watches, big diamond rings and Mercedes cars while the poor widows in the church cast their last 2 mites (Mark 12:41-44). At the moment Michy is like a pharisee as temples of stones are more important for him than temples of the Holy Ghost (God's sons in the church).

Mark 12:38-40 (KJV)
38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

So read the rest of Ezekiel 34 and see that God will look after those who have been scattered and wounded. He will care for them.

Ezekiel 34:9-16 (KJV)
9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

Etc...

So the decision is yours and I can understand that it must be hard to leave CAI. Especially if your spouse is still in there and wants to stay in there. It was hard for each one of us. It is a decision between you and the Lord.

Some of you may find my lines quite hard and with some bitterness... I personally don't have bitterness against Scott, Michy or any of his highly "trained" officers. I am just angry at the lies and the deceit they are allowed to do and the suffering they bring to many. God loves the truth and hates liars and I know he will deal with them in His time. People in CAI will realise one day all the lies Scott Williams has done... they will understand the real reason why he said in his last AGM talk (Bradfield) that he was "persecuted" in Ballarat school for having done sexual abuse on students... He has prepared us so well over the years, making us believe that all such sexual accusations will be a persecution instead of the truth coming out. All this has been going on for ages, at schools in Oz, then with Ken,... and so on and he has also introduced the whole sin into the church in Europe as well. A real DECEIVER and LIAR!!

I can't wait for my Lord to come back... I may have to suffer a lot on Judgement Day for all the lack of wisdom, pride, and not walking all the time with my white socks inside the house... but I can not wait for His fair Judgement where deceit and lies from those men will be brought to light. Those guys are not seeking for reconciliation because they only hide as they know that they have sinned a lot and should be judged severely according to the Word. But deep down in my heart I still pray though that they will find repentance before the Lord returns... I really hope so!


ViD
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"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" - John 8:32

bridges burnt
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Rank:Rookier

Posts:69
Registered:26/09/2006


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 3:03 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Hi bb,What I am conflicted about is the following; in the bible the only example I can find for sexual sin of a leader was that of King David. King David did have to repent, but did not lose his position as king.Thus - biblically is this not example that could be used in Scott's particular case? Likewise there are many scriptures about forgiveness and restoration.I have people depending on me to make the right decision - and I want to make sure whatever I decide is based only on the bible.Could you please post your thoughts on all of this from a biblical perspective. I am NOT interested in slander, sarcasm or mocking. I just want to know what the bible says on all of this.Anon.PS What is your email address?

Hello Anonymous

My email address is backatcha101@hotmail.com. You can write anytime. From reading this thread you seem to have been provided with the scriptural answers. If you are still in the CAI you should have access  to a book called "Christianity in Crisis". Its in the assembly library so dont be afraid to get your hands on it and  opening it to Appendix A ? (page 363)

 There is so much more to this than meets the eye, the homosexuality is just one issue which points to the greater question of what sort of control does ASW have over his people that he could do these things to so many people for such a long time and get away with it? Its not just about Scott's sin, its about his response to it, his non-repentant attitude, his emotional, financial and SPIRITUAL abuse.

This issue is the tip of the iceberg and as hard as it might be for you to understand, you need to dig some more.....here are some links to spiritual abuse..if you google, there is heaps more. 

http://www.caic.org.au/biblebase/abuse/11marks.htm

http://www.caic.org.au/biblebase/abuse/abuse-ch.htm

http://www.caic.org.au/biblebase/abuse/characteristics.htm

bye.. for now..I guess we know each other..I hope those people who are depending on you still listen to you if you decide to stand up for  righteoussnous and not be a partaker of this sin...

bb

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"Once you"ve crossed over there"s no turning back, once that burning bridge is gone"
Alison Krauss

klopperr
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Rank:Newbie

Posts:26
Registered:27/09/2006


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 3:33 PM)

Reply to : Voice in the Desert

Reply to : klopperrYou can still follow God outside of CAI. You don't need to be in CAI to keep searching God... on the opposite.For your interest:Ezekiel 33:1-9 (KJV)1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and b

it is quite shocking to read... i was also VERY surprised about that hint at sexual persecution in the school, although I had NO idea about the homosexuality issue. there were also many talks in the past about "one day newspapers will write lies about me, even that I am a homo etc etc". now the puzzle starts falling into place.

i am still in, although all this stuff is tearing me apart and often I dont even know what to think anymore. am shocked and distressed. how can a person indulging (and I do not think this was almost a one-off "slip, as it appears from the "confession") in such sin preach from the stage, shout on people gving them guilty conscience. bizarre.

i am sure you know me. you would know how it feels. a genuine question  to you: on Judgement Day, would I/you stand before God with the overseer giving account for me/you? I am sure you know what I am trying to get at. it is a genuine question, please believe me.

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Voice in the Desert
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(Date Posted:09/11/2006 4:03 PM)

Reply to : klopperr

Hi Klopperr,

This is a good question you have: "on Judgement Day, would I/you stand before God with the overseer giving account for me/you?"

I always heard also that I would have to stand next to Scott on Judgement Day and he will have to give an account on my walk. I never found a scripture... and the only scripture which I could find so far and is used in the "Changing assemblies" file is:

Hebrews 13:17 (KJV)
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Now there are 2 ways you can read this:

1) "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account" about your walk , that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

or

2) "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account" about how they looked after you , that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.


If you read like in the second interpretation you will discover a new meaning for this scripture!!... which CAI doesn't emphasis here.

I personally believe that you need to take heed of those 2 interpretations... but I believe also that I don't care if it is Scott, or my brother in Christ who has to give an account about my walk. I walk for God and I do all my best to please Him! And if I fail then I repent and tell the truth... and don't lie or hide in deceit like your overseers are doing.

So to answer your question, you may have to stand next to any person on Judgement Day... he/she may have to give an account about you... and you will also give an account about him/her. I personally believe that God won't need this guys/girl or this officer's account to decided since he knows better than them what the person has done/thought/said!! He sees and hears everything and HE KNOWS everthing... so why would he need an account from your Overseer or any other person?

May be I am off the track here... but I am still seaching :-) I don't have all the answers... but if you want to keep in touch more in private then please let me know and I can send you my email address.

In the mean time, keep strong and know that He loves you... As Pastor Stephen Banda said rightly: "There is hope in a hopeless world!"... and I believe also that there is hope for the members in a hopeless CAI :-)... but the hope for those left might be not to take part of this lie and deceit.

Love in Christ,

ViD
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 5:57 PM)

Just thought I? add my two cents. Supposedly Scott said if he could find a scripture to commit suicide he would...

Once when I was at the chalet I was "not in order". I hadn? actually done anything, I was just not in order. I was not like Ree, etc. bla bla. After hours of being bullyed by officers, who also didn? know what I? done wrong I was sent away to repent and then after a couple of hours they met me again. I was then told to convince them that I was repentant and convince them to let me in the evening meeting that night. I have seen this happen to many people on many occasions. How do you prove you?e repentant? How do you convince someone who has being shouting at you all day that you want to sit in the same room as them for the next 4 hours?!?????????????!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway they let me in the meeting in the end because it was New Year and God was giving extra grace because of a new year (????!) - another example of the mysterious ways of God in the CAI which you will not find in the Bible.

Anyway I am 100% sure if I had said at the time that I was so sorry that if I could find a scripture allowing me to commit suicide I would, that the answer would have been you are a rebellious evil bitch who isn? sorry at all. You?e just feeling sorry for yourself because you?e been told off and you?e not at all repentant..... So why does Scott not get this kind of answer?! And what he did was really evil. I hadn? even done anything, there were just a couple of officers who decided it was my turn to be dumped upon.

As for writing to Benny, Michy, etc. well cool idea - but if the allegations are true what reason do they have not to cover it up?

And on a final note, the leaving assemblies sheet. Not convincing at all my friends. Cross out all the text and blurb, look up every scripture and read it in context and you will see that the BIble provides no kind of theory about being born in an assembly and having to stay there. The NT church was a spontaneous movement. Look at the Ethiopian who just got saved somewhere on the road and went off and was never heard of again? Why is that example in there if the changing assemblies sheet has any value. Why are CAI so scared that people will leave? Why can? they trust people?

 

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 6:24 PM)

Are you referring to the ever quoted scripture in Hebrews 13? Why don't you go go and read the whole chapter for yourself in context....without the ASW preconcieved interpretation?

V7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken to you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of thier conversation.

Who appointed ASW? Shall we have a look at the scriptures in 1Timothy3 and Titus, which clearly outline the qualifications that God demands of a bishop....BLAMELESS......considering the evidence at hand we can hardly say that this ever applied. HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE... Michy, wher is your wife, yes of course its all her fault......not greedy...hmmmmm Rolex comes to mind....PATIENT could write a sermon here about temper tantrums......Good report with them who without (Just skipped the whole section on ruling the house well to save Michy some dignity) Sex allegations from the schools where you taught... it gets better and better on this job application.

WHO HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU THE WORD OF GOD? Where does it say that men should get intimate, hop in bed, commit adultery and start lying to their wives? Yes its all done in love....sorry lust? Shall we really follow his faith? Was it ever about the word of God? or was it about the strange doctrines that V9 in the same chapter talks about.......love your boyfriend more than your wife.

 

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Shall we skip to much beloved V17...... for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account....Has Scott watched for the souls of the people who have fallen from his church because of his sin....do you really think that he will be able to give account for my soul joyfully when he has had a hand in this whole mess?

Why don't you have a look in Ezekiel 34?

Don't let them fool you with lies......and twisted scriptures....

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(Date Posted:09/11/2006 6:46 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Just thought I? add my two cents. Supposedly Scott said if he could find a scripture to commit suicide he would...Once when I was at the chalet I was "not in order". I hadn? actually done anything, I was just not in order. I was not like Ree, etc. bla bla. After hours of being bullyed by officers, who also didn? know what I? done wrong I was sent away to repent and then after a couple of hours they met me again. I was then told to convince them that I was repentant and convince them to let me in the evening meeting that night. I have seen this happen to many people on many occasions. How do you prove you?e repentant? How do you convince someone who has being shouting at you all day that you want to sit in the same room as them for the next 4 hours?!?????????????!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway they let me in the meeting in the end because it was New Year and God was giv

yea, i also heard that one about committing suicide. the blood of Jesus covers all sins, provided true repentence is there. if the sin is covered, why wanting to committ suicide?  As for me - well, I am praying about the whole thing and asking God to show me the way. as said before, people who have left for whatever reason are still dear to me and despite what they are called in the cai, are my brothers/sisters. many of them I spoke to and met last summer. am still in shock about the whole thing. i wonder if they know how it all was presented to us...

 

 

 

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 7:46 PM)

Yes, they know, because they?e been there and done that. I was in the CAI many years and everytime someone left major lies were told about them. Sometimes I knew things were not true or were exaggerated, but I still stayed (and was a party to their slander of others as is anyone writing here who is still in the CAI). I knew when I left that the same thing would happen to me, and it did in no uncertain terms.

 

The thing is, someone above is asking for people to contact Scott and Michy, etc. but how many of those still in the assembly are contacing those who left to ask their side of the story? We have to go to Michy and Scott - the source - for their side of it, but who in the assembly is asking outside of the group? And if not why not? Why the double standard?

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 8:42 PM)

Scott certainly does have much of the fruit of an overseer as described in 1 Tim in an earlier message. But you are right, he has failed in others.

I don't see how it helps anyone if I leave. I don't have blind loyalty, I see the faults, but I want to stay and help change them rather than simply leave. Many people within the CAI feel the same way.

There is a lot of good things in the CAI, the meeting at Bradfield was really great. I will stay on work on the things that need changing, and not simply leave.

Anonandonandon.

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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 8:44 PM)

PS I had a message read out to me last night - Scott has fully stood down as overseer. I think that is a good thing. I hope the healing (for everyone) can now begin.

 

Anonandonandon.

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(Date Posted:09/11/2006 8:58 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous



PS I had a message read out to me last night - Scott has fully stood down as overseer. I think that is a good thing. I hope the healing (for everyone) can now begin.Anonandonandon.





Would be interested to read his message... Can anybody post it here?

By the way, it might be a good thing, but he should normally not stood down but should rather be sacked from his office (big difference!) and should be out of fellowship/cut off for a while till repentance is seen... as it was done to any officers/brethren in CAI and as the Bible says.

Also if he wants the Lord and the people to forgive him then he better work hard and get a list of all the people he has abused over so many years. The healing will only start when he contacts all of them and apologises fully (no partial rubbish confession/justification).

I wonder if he would tell Ken on that???? I wonder if he would admit to Ken that what he did was an abomination unto the Lord?? I wonder how far he is ready to pay the price for repentance????!!!!

Moreover, the same should happen to Mr Michy and Mr Benny... They should be sacked from their offices and should be out of fellowship/cut off until repentance is proven. Those are the ones who preach that you need "2 to tango".

ViD
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anon1
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(Date Posted:09/11/2006 9:22 PM)


By the way, it might be a good thing, but he should normally not stood down but should rather be sacked from his office (big difference!) and should be out of fellowship/cut off for a while till repentance is seen... as it was done to any officers/brethren in CAI and as the Bible says.
##################  

EXACTLY !!!!!!!  -  he should be thrown out of the PHQ.  given no money, fined,  and told to get a job, earn money,  find somewhere for his family  to live.  GIVEN NO SUPPORT AT ALL.  He should be put out of fellowship for a long time.     He should be even sent (immediately) to a foreign country to prove his repentance or summoned to go to the Chalet or somewhere to account for himself before the senior officers.

STEPPING DOWN ---  is getting away with it.....  stepping  down, therefore he is no longer the 'caretaker'  of the PHQ.    Kick him off the property.... that's what happened to and similar happened to others when they 'weren't following the teaching'  as 'shown'by Scott.

Scott's  whole reason for living in the PHQ was because he was overseer and therefore the caretaker....    

REMEMBER - IT HAS BEEN A SHAM.....  don't get tricked out by a wishy-washy 'repentance' stepping down by Scott.  Obviously his teaching methods don't apply to himself....  HE HAS GENIUNELY BEEN EVIL (according to his own teaching).  

 

Rgds

  Anon1

 

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:09/11/2006 9:40 PM)

Give it time. There iare ways to bring everything into the light according to the bible, and healing for all. I believe we will all see the fruit of repentance. There is much good to be preserved within the CAI. Remember, Jesus said not pull out the tares in case the wheat is also ripped out. Wisdom is needed.

Anonandonandon.

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(Date Posted:09/11/2006 9:57 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous



Give it time. There iareways to bring everything into the light according to the bible, and healing for all. I believewe will all see the fruit of repentance. There is much good to be preserved within the CAI. Remember, Jesus said not pull out the tares in case the wheat is also ripped out. Wisdom is needed.Anonandonandon.





Yep, there are ways when officers speak the truth and don't hide... when they dare confront the liars and deceivers within the church. The problem is that if you don't say anything then nothing happens and if you say something then you are cut off from the OLE and from the church. That's what happened with the prophets in the Bible and they had to pay the price for all the others who would not speak up. Israel killed her prophets... and history repeats itself.

Wisdom is necessary in everything, I agree. But wisdom is not to sit back and do/say nothing. If you make compromise and accept all the rubbish they publish on the CAI, then it doesn't help either. I can understand that sending Scott to an other country as a missionary would not help him and the church, but he should not stay in the church, neither send messages in the OLE (or access it) and even less stay at the PHQ... the post above is right on this.

Why do you say "not pull out the tares in case the wheat is also ripped out"? What do you mean by that? Could you expand a bit more please?

I wish all the best to all those who are still in CAI and suffer from those deceived leaders.

ViD
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:10/11/2006 1:23 AM)

$%*'`[Montec(risto)]%*'`@well, I think it all is a sham.  how dissapointing.  good luck all.
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(Date Posted:10/11/2006 8:00 AM)

So now that Scott has fully stepped down as overseer, who is in charge? Would that be homo number 2 or homo number 3?
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(Date Posted:10/11/2006 4:25 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Give it time. There iareways to bring everything into the light according to the bible, and healing for all. I believewe will all see the fruit of repentance. There is much good to be preserved within the CAI. Remember, Jesus said not pull out the tares in case the wheat is also ripped out. Wisdom is needed.Anonandonandon.

i am exactly in the same shoes. still in, but hoping for a change. i know that there is something seriously wrong at the top... and I pray to God He will deal with them, as they dealt with us. I personally thing ASW got away VERY easy with this. too easy in fact. I think what is meant here with tares is that despite the corruption there ARE good genuine things in the CAI. lets keep the whole matter in prayer!

could those who know the situation expand what stands behind this misterious ASW - Michy relationship? much talking about adoption... that some of the people who have left were simply jealous (I wonder if G. heard that one?). 

another question, which I did not get an answer on - it was presented to us, that when the 3 met ASW in some holiday resport or some sort of "royal smth smth club" the day after the famous letter was presented the meeting ended very peacefully and everybody hugged each other and so on. Then the 3 went back and started phoning arond despite the rosey picture painted about the meeting. how was it in reality?

thanks for answering. I guessed it was you, Steve, as the Voice in the Desert )) Sorry for hiding my identity.

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Voice in the Desert
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(Date Posted:10/11/2006 5:09 PM)

Reply to : klopperr



Reply to : AnonymousGive it time. There iareways to bring everything into the light according to the bible, and healing for all. I believewe will all see the fruit of repentance. There is much good to be preserved within the CAI. Remember, Jesus said not pull out the tares in case the wheat is also ripped out. Wisdom is needed.Anonandonandon.i am exactly in the same shoes. still in, but hoping for a change. i know that there is something seriously wrong at the top... and I pray to God He will deal with them, as they dealt with us. I personally thing ASW got away VERY easy with this. too easy in fact.I think what is meant here with tares is that despite the corruption there ARE good genuine things in the CAI. lets keep the whole matter in prayer!could tho





Am afraid but Steve is not Voice in the Desert... Voice in the Desert is French and used to be in New Zealand... should be easy to guess now :-)

If you want I could send you the files from the 3 with all the explanations and points following the History of events file, etc... Your officers would not send you those files as they are afraid that you believe and see the truth. Answers from the 3 are pure facts compare to the other explanation from Michy, Benny, etc... which play with interpretations.

Just write to me at good4u2know@hotmail.com and I can send you all the documents you need to understand the other side of the story.

The 3 have never been jalous of Michy... but if you read their letter you can see how Scott has been partial many times towards Michy. Michy had it really easy compare to any other high officer. We are not jalous... but the Bible commands that there is not partiality = no respecter of person when one does make any mistake... and Scott has not done this towards Michy.

I told Scott personally about this, and Scott let me know that when he rebuked Martin once, Michy would rebuke Michy 10X more... Although I can not prove his statement 100%, everybody can see that Michy is never being rebuked officially in from of others or in the OLE. He always appears as the perfect man despite his sins or mistakes, whereas others are being slandered and getting rebuked very sharpely in from of all officers or in the OLE. It is so obvious that Scott is not dealing the same way with his adopted son compare to all the other people in the CAI.

This 11 pages file would show you also many other examples where Michy is not treated the same way as other members or church employees. You will be stunned.

So up to you... ask and you shall receive... or if you prefer you can contact Steve directly and he will tell you everything you need to know: steve_forkin@yahoo.com.au. He will tell you exactly what happened at the RSC club, on that meeting and after that meeting and who phoned them and why... Very simple, just ask/write to him and get the other side of the story! As CAI high officers preaches to get both side of the story but don't want their members to know the other side, since they are afraid of people knowing the truth!!

All the best.

ViD
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:10/11/2006 8:46 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Give it time. There iareways to bring everything into the light according to the bible, and healing for all. I believewe will all see the fruit of repentance. There is much good to be preserved within the CAI. Remember, Jesus said not pull out the tares in case the wheat is also ripped out. Wisdom is needed.Anonandonandon.

 

Sorry Anonandonandon, but I think you are missing the point. People have been severely abused, and not just sexually. Even if none of the sexual allegations were true I know people who left the CAI who were suicidal afterwards, and it was not the fruit of their evil walk. It was years and years of being emotionally and spiritually abused.

There may be good within the CAI, there was good within the 3rd reich - should we have preserved that? There were good things in all dictatorial systems, there was good in communism, everybody had a job. Wishing to preserve a system for the little good it has in it is very naive and shows no respect or concern for those who have been battered and bullyed by it.

Your phrases are also fully 100% CAI - wisdom is needed (now where have I heard that before) you believe we will see the fruit of repentance - what if we don?? Will you then stop pandering to the wishes of those who are abusing you (even if you?e enjoying it), and who are financially ripping you off? Can you think for yourself Anonandonandon or have you just become a CAI dummy, repeating things like "it? really stirry", or "scott says..."? Do you really know what the Bible says or have you only seen it through CAI-tinted glasses? Can you honestly come here and say Scott is a good and righteous man who is fully broken about every time he abused someone, has apologised to every single one of them and recompensed them for the situation? If not, why are you wasting your time?

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(Date Posted:11/11/2006 5:33 AM)

For those of you who want to change things from the inside:

One needs to realise that this  goes far beyond sinning and being forgiven. It is the system that is corrupt. Everyone within this organisation seems to only concentrate on Scott's acts of homosexuality, but none of you  seem to realise how this man has set himself up. He has made himself of such importance that e.g. women in Coffs Harbour have to get up early in the morning, drag their kids out of bed, drive to the PHQ to pick up Kersty at the gate and then drop her off at the road at the beginning of the property which is a two minute drive....and why???? because the man is apparently so important and working so hard that he can't even drive his own daughter to the bus. I mean come on guys!!!!

In the CAI it's not about serving one another or Christ, it's about control. Officers are taught to control a conversation. A person who is dragged into the "red room" to be spoken to barely has the chance to give an answer before he is cut down. One never leaves such a session uplifted but rather suicidle.

When they can't answer you Hebrews 13 :7, 17 is quoted  without fail...."you will be dragged before me on judgemant day and you better make sure I give a good account of you"......The CAI presents a picture of Scott being the mediator between God and you and according to his account of you  will we walk through the pearly gates or not. Is that really what the scripture says??? Is it not Christ who is our mediator??

It says in vers 17 "....as they that must GIVE ACCOUNT, that they do it with joy, and not with grief........"    Now someone in the assembly was asked on skype who Scott gives account to and he wrote without hesitation  "to God"  but is that what it says in this vers??     Nowhere here does it say that he gives account to God alone, infact such a man who sets himself up to be  only accountable to God is bound for disaster already. Now, every Government in the free world must give account to God AND TO THE PEOPLE!!!! In fact they have an opposition which job it is to hold the government accountable to the people and in question time they hurl the hardest questions at the leaders to make sure they don't rip the people off. If the they are found wanting in their accountabilty  we tell'em to jump in the lake at the next election.      

Don't you guys realise that it has become all about Scott , not about Christ but Christ in the overseer. They don't tell that you are supposed to follow Christ's life, faith, character but you are to follow everything that ASW does, down to how he brushes his teeth and washes his nostrils. I know this first hand. The control this man has over peoples lives is so enormous that one person in the assembly said that even if Scott came dressed in a pink dress they would follow him. Just think about this statement. It's loyalty over and above truth! It's this sick loyalty the nazi's had fo Hitler.

I mentioned once that I found the financial burdens too hard bear at which I got the response from Michy "...well, we haven't asked  you to sell your house yet have we.."  while he now drives a sports coupe Mercedes. This was bought immediately after throwing his wife and children out of the house. This man shows not an ounce of repentance.

I could go on forever, but I'll stop here. These guys will never repent, because it's not about Christ - it's about control!

Andy Dufrane.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Andreas Duswald
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Registered:10/11/2006


(Date Posted:11/11/2006 6:10 AM)

Reply to : andy dufrane



For those of you who want to change things from the insidene needs to realise thatthis goes far beyond sinning and being forgiven. It is the system that is corrupt. Everyone within this organisation seems to only concentrate on Scott's acts of homosexuality, butnone of you seem to realise how this man has set himself up. He has made himself of such importance that e.g. women in Coffs Harbour have to get up early in the morning, drag their kids out of bed, drive to the PHQ to pick up Kersty at the gate and then drop her off atthe road at the beginning of the property which is a two minute drive....and why???? because the man is apparently so important and working so hard that he can't even drive his own daughter to the bus. I mean come on guys!!!!In the CAI it's not about serving one another or Christ, it's about control





Hey andy Dufrane! nice name - I liked the film )

I can amen all what you wrote, but not hte last statement - there might allways be room for repentance. and if this would not be, than most of all will simply be lost. I still pray and hope that this to Men will get a chance to repent, not only for them selfs, but also for all thouse who have suffered under them.

Andyway - Scotts time is running out very fast. This is what God showed me clearly, I wrote an E-Mail to him to inform him, but he did not react, Shocking all this. I think Scott is believing his own lies and does not even recognice.
But if he will not react to the things god now wants from him, than god will start soon to do it himself, and this will be a very hard thing coming up for him. Frightnig to me
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(Date Posted:11/11/2006 12:02 PM)

Reply to : Andreas Duswald

I don't agree with you! Scotts time has run out already! It is not 1 minute to 12, it is far beyond. Ask the people concerned.

A lot was written about repentance and forgiveness. Only those can forgive to whom wrong was adressed. The general confession in one letter is a joke! We read in the books from Charles Finney, that you have to be thorough about repentance. Scott has to write down his sins one by one, every one of his sexual victims has to be listed. He has to try to get in contact with every single person and confess and ask for forgiveness! If you were not concerned, you can't forgive him - can you?

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Andreas Duswald
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Registered:10/11/2006


(Date Posted:11/11/2006 12:15 PM)

Reply to : Jeff29



Reply to : Andreas DuswaldI don't agree with you! Scotts time has run out already! It is not 1 minute to 12, it is far beyond. Ask the people concerned.A lot was written about repentance and forgiveness. Only those can forgive to whom wrong was adressed. The general confession in one letter is a joke! We read in the books from Charles Finney, that you have to be thorough about repentance. Scott has to write down his sins one by one, every one of his sexual victims has to be listed. He has to try to get in contact with every single person and confess and ask for forgiveness! If you were not concerned, you can't forgive him - can you?




As far as i know Scott is still alive, and time is over when it? over - till than he has time to repent, and also as far as i know god forgives anything but one thing.

How ever Finney is not God and his word is not Gods word. ..
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