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Title: Life After Death
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(Date Posted:11/07/2010 4:15 AM)
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Ralph asked me a question in another thread, and when I tried to move it to a new thread, I accidental deleted it. The question was:

What I was actually asking was how do you stand in regards to what happens after we pass over from this life.

In a nutshell Ralph, I don't know. I also don't believe that anyone can know. What I suspect though is that once we die, that's it. Finished. The end of consciousness. But, as I said, I think no one can know, so my speculation is only that, speculation.

I hope I am wrong though. I love (most of...LOL!) my extended family, my wife and my kids. I would love to be able to continue a relationship with them in the great beyond. But again, sadly, I suspect we won't.

I went hiking the other week on a mountain in Hong Kong. A thunderstorm came up and there I was on the top of the mountain quite literally in the middle of the thunder clouds. The lightening was flashing very close to me and for about 20 minutes there I thought my goose was cooked (BTW, very few people are struck directly but are hit by the residual electricity when it strikes the ground near to them). A couple of times, the lightening bolts were so close that all I saw was a wall of white. Man, that's close! Anyway, for that 20 minutes I was thinking my time was up. I thought about my wife and kids and how I wasn't ready to die. I wanted more time with them. I didn't want to  never see them again. I didn't want to leave them alone...especially my 2 kids (3 and 5 yrs).

I think this is what motivates a lot of people to believe in life after death. After all, it's not just a Christian belief. A lot of religions and even non-religious people believe in it. The psychology of it is quite plain in my opinion.  I realise people have faith in an afterlife and such, and I cannot say they're wrong. I actually hope they're right...at least a nice Universalist version anyway.  :)

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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 7:21 AM)

 
Being brought up in the Church of England as a child I never thought of such things nor questioned anything until I reached my mid teens.
I probably was hoping there was a God but because of lack of answers and "proof", for my own peace of mind, I concluded that death was the end of everything and nothing more. That was fine for awhile, then I was introduced to Revival and if that did nothing else for me it at least made the bible an open book.
Now with all the different opinions and interpretations I have witnessed over these last two years or so, it is hard to pin down what is what when it comes to scriptural meaning. (Not only talking about this topic but the Jesus coming also)
But don't get me wrong, I still believe as a Christian, but boy! talk about eschatological paradigms, the mind boggles. I'm sure there must be a proper answer, whether it will be revealed in this life one wonders. One can only go on believing and praying it come to pass.

Ralph
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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 7:27 AM)

 

The question of whether there is life after death does not fall under the jurisdiction of science, as science is concerned only with classification and analysis of sense data. Moreover, man has been busy with scientific inquiries and research, in the modern sense of the term, only for the last few centuries, while he has been familiar with the concept of life after death since time immemorial.

All the Prophets of God called their people to worship God and to believe in life after death. They laid so much emphasis on the belief in life after death that even a slight doubt in it meant denying God and made all other beliefs meaningless.

The very fact that all the “Prophets of God” have dealt with this metaphysical question of life after death so confidently and so uniformly - the gap between their ages in some cases, being thousands of years - goes to prove that the source of their knowledge of life after death as proclaimed by them all, was the same, i.e. Divine revelation. (World assembly of Muslim Youth)

 

Considering above, I honestly feel there is only one way that any valid discussion can take place on this topic is that one has to believe the Bible as the inspired word of God and from that, what scriptures support whether there is a life after death.

Disbelievers have no sound basis for their denial of life after death; it is based on pure conjecture. The bible exposes the weakness of their stand by advancing very logical and rational arguments in support of it.

To deny life after death is to deny God also.

 

Ralph



 

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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 7:52 AM)

re: post 1#

......talk about eschatological paradigms,

Should have read: ......talk about eschatological paradigm shifts.

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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 9:34 AM)

Reply to Ralph

I don't quite get that Ralph. Why does a quote from the World Assembly of Muslim Youth lead you to affirm your faith in the Bible? Shouldn't you be opening the Koran now?

Disbelievers have no sound basis for their denial of life after death; it is based on pure conjecture. The bible exposes the weakness of their stand by advancing very logical and rational arguments in support of it.

Come on Ralph. None of us have any sound basis for an acceptance or rejection of life after death. Have you spoken to someone who has died and come back?  No? Me either. So both of us can only base a premise on conjecture, which is why I say 'I don't know'.

You have a faith in life after death. Fine. But it's faith. Don't try to convince me, or even yourself, that it is rational or logical. Faith is not about those things. You might be right, but you might not be. You can't possibly try to argue that the whole life after death thing is provable, testable, logical and rational. That's just silly. It's just not provable...for anyone.


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Reply To Te%20Luo%20Yi
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 3:34 PM)

Reply to Te Luo Yi

Come on Ralph. None of us have any sound basis for an acceptance or rejection of life after death. Have you spoken to someone who has died and come back?  No? Me either. So both of us can only base a premise on conjecture, which is why I say 'I don't know'.

You have a faith in life after death. Fine. But it's faith. Don't try to convince me, or even yourself, that it is rational or logical. Faith is not about those things. You might be right, but you might not be. You can't possibly try to argue that the whole life after death thing is provable, testable, logical and rational. That's just silly. It's just not provable...for anyone.



What he said. Faith is faith, doesn't matter what the subject is. What we know and what we believe are two entirely different things. Christians love to get those things mixed up. Even Mr Thomason, who once told me he could prove the existence of God using scientific reasoning.


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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 4:29 PM)

Troy,

 

Try not to read something into that which was not said. I wasn’t trying to convince you one way or the other.

My point being, that it is from the bible we get more information about life after death than what science can conjure up. It is an area where one can get any sort of satisfactory results for solace on the matter as far as I'm concerned

 

Have you spoken to someone who has died and come back?  No? Me either. So both of us can only base a premise on conjecture, which is why I say 'I don't know'.

Yes, Jesus Christ. It is his legacy. Again one has to believe it.

 

As for my quoting from Muslim text, it doesn’t matter where it’s from when stating a fact. Besides, Islam has its roots in Christianity.

 

Ralph

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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 7:01 PM)

Reply to Guest

My point being, that it is from the bible we get more information about life after death than what science can conjure up. It is an area where one can get any sort of satisfactory results for solace on the matter as far as I'm concerned


But the Book of Mormon and a myriad of other non-Christian religious texts also have a lot to say about life after death. Shall we accept what they have to say just because they make noise about it too?

 

Yes, Jesus Christ. It is his legacy. Again one has to believe it.


How did I know you were gonna say that?  ;)

 

As for my quoting from Muslim text, it doesn’t matter where it’s from when stating a fact.


Well I guess that answers my first question above. So as long as a text supports your preconceived notions, then it doesn't matter where it came from or what else it says?  Hmmm....


Besides, Islam has its roots in Christianity.


It sure does, as well as Judaism, the tribal religions of the region it sprang from and a myriad of other converging streams. Don't say that too loud though or we might end up in hiding.  ;)


Be sure to note Ralph, I am not saying there is no life after death and I am not saying saying there is life after death either. I am saying I don't know, (even though I suspect the former). In this we are all Agnostic to a point.

 





(Message edited by Te Luo Yi On 11/07/2010 7:04 PM)
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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 7:15 PM)

Don't say that too loud though or we might end up in hiding.  ;)

 

LA HAWLA WA LA QUWWATA ILLA BILLAH

 

hee hee

 

Ralph

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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 9:48 PM)

 Hi Ralph and all interested in this topic,

Try to read all of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross' books, in the order that they were published.

She was in her time 'the world's foremost expert on the subjects of death, dying and the afterlife.'

Her life's work was with the terminally ill. She cared for and was with thousands of patients at the very moment of death.

One of the studies her group did was to examine 20.000 cases of people all over the world who had been declared clinically dead who later returned to life.

For me, her work and writings give an insight into dying, death and an afterlife that is encouraging and believable. 

If you get a chance have a read.

You can still get her works from Amazon and sometimes from 2nd hand book stores.

Her books have been a great help.

Cheers,

Glad 


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"Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."

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Reply To Glad%2Dto%20be%20out
(Date Posted:11/07/2010 10:22 PM)

Reply to Glad-to be out

I know there is a large-ish group of Agnostics online who suggest some of the research into life-after-death has merit.  I will look into her stuff on your recommendation. As I said, I want there to be an afterlife too.  :)

I looked online and found some website in praise of her work:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts02.html

http://www.ekrfoundation.org/

On Life After Death

and one not so favourable:

http://www.slate.com/id/2107069





(Message edited by Te Luo Yi On 11/07/2010 11:25 PM)
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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:12/07/2010 2:39 AM)

I wasn't alive for quite some time before I was born, and based on that knowledge I've got a fairly good idea what life will be like when oxygen is no longer able to get to my brain.

Do I believe we have souls? Or just consciousness. Ghosts... god... angels... heaven... they all seem kinda unlikely. I want to believe, sure. If they didn't all read like fairy tales it'd be different. Christianity is a very elaborate and well fleshed out fairytale though, and I hear lots of really neat and convincing supernatural tales from 'other' people. Maybe if Jesus really would put me in a trance and start shouting at me it'd be a bit more believable. 
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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:14/07/2010 8:14 AM)

Thanks Glad,

I will have a look also. Amazon carry all volumes  Might add all to my library.

regards

Ralph.
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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:16/07/2010 9:19 AM)

Well if there's life after death I'll have plenty of time to read all about it when I'm dead. Given that option, surely reading about it before then runs the risk of being a complete waste of precious time.
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Re:Life After Death
(Date Posted:16/07/2010 4:21 PM)

1Co 15:19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
 
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