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Didaktikon
Re :   Reply To MothandRust

G'day, Pete.

I look forwards to seeing you share your views on the subject of sin, but for now I'll point out I'm surprised you found the arguments put forwards in the "six Scriptures" piece convincing. I could easily drive an "exegetical bus" through the many and varied holes such argumentation contains, and having briefly 'Googled' the subject, I discovered a raft of biblical scholars already have! The positions generally proposed by the pro- crowd when appealing to Scripture invariably miss the mark historically, culturally and linguistically. This latest example is simply more of the same.

The rejection shown to gays by Christians and churches is indeed shameful, and should be sorely repented of. I indicated as much, in this very thread, six years ago (see post #10). However, suggesting that homosexuality as expressed in "a loving, committed, and monogamous way" is biblically a neutral matter, is naught but wishful thinking; it's simply an untenable position to adopt.

The following brief rebuttal of Matthew Vines' "six Scriptures" piece is nothing, if not interesting. Note particularly, the author is, himself, same-sex attracted:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/june-web-only/why-matthew-vines-is-wrong-about-bible-same-sex-relationshi.html?start=1

I've no doubts the 'Yes!' campaign will carry the day. And as I pointed out six years ago, such won't cause me to lose a wink's sleep! There are far more pressing issues for me to concern myself with. That many who profess Christian belief continue to support such a change, and that they do so via appeals to Christ's mandate to "love others", simply confirms that biblical and theological illiteracy continues to be a profound issue in many Australian communions and churches.

Blessings,

Ian


12/10/2017 1:31 AM


Biblianut
Re :   Gay Marriages

All your other hooha about 'sin' is ridiculous though. I'll come back and make my point about that at some point.

Looking forward to YOUR point of view on why there is 'morality' and 'immorality' on earth.


07/10/2017 1:21 AM


MothandRus
Re :   Gay Marriages

What's 'my' point? I haven't really shared my point. I did however find this article interesting for Christians to read. I don't believe the bible is written by a god to people so my perspective is different, of course.
All your other hooha about 'sin' is ridiculous though. I'll come back and make my point about that at some point.


05/10/2017 11:16 PM


Biblianut
Re :   Gay Marriages

Hi Mothy,

I don't know what is your point here, whether they are homosexual or not?

If one wishes to express their sexuality outside of marriage (ie one man and one women only) by having a sexual relationship, be it same-sex, adultery, another's spouse or whatever, is a SIN and will not go away unpunished.

What is written and my own experience, there is always a negative response having gone against that law set down by God, whether it is immediate or in time, there is always a reaction to it.

Old testament law, if broken, had an immediate punishment dished out to those that sinned.

In the New Testament that law is no longer imputed toward those that believe in Christ and repent of their actions. The “law is written in their hearts by the Holy Spirit” and do not continue in sin.

This does not apply to those of unbelief and continue in their activities as those that “Live by the law, will be judged by the law” and held in store at final judgement. Notwithstanding the negative impact of it now.

I see the whole narrative of the bible is showing us God put down the law(moral) for our own well being and good, in this life and that to come.

Going against it we reap the consequences.

Grace and peace

Ralph.

PS God puts much importance on sexual immorality: Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body........ 1Corinthians 6:12-18 




01/10/2017 6:12 PM


MothandRus
Re :   Gay Marriages

There are 6 Scriptures about homosexuality in the Bible. Here's what they really say.

The Story of Sodom & Gomorrah (Genesis 19)

This story in Genesis 19 is probably the most popular passage used to condemn homosexuality. Here is how Vines explains it:

"God sends two angels disguised as men into the City of Sodom where the men of Sodom threatened to rape them. The angels blind the men, and God destroys the city. For centuries, this story was interpreted as God's judgment on same-sex relations, but the only form of same-sex behavior described is a threatened gang rape. "

So gang rape = not good (also not the same thing as homosexuality). But the recap of Sodom & Gomorrah found in Ezekial 16:49 highlights what Vines believes is the real point of the story:

"Now, this was the sin of your sister, Sodom. She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned, they did not help the poor and needy."

In other words, everyone using this story as evidence of the sin of homosexuality, might be missing the point entirely.

When God calls homosexuality an abomination 
(Leviticus 18:22) (Leviticus 20:13)

Yep. We've all heard that Leviticus is where the Bible straight-up says that homosexual behavior is an abomination. And yes, it does. It also says that homosexuals should receive the death penalty (!!!). It also says the same thing about eating pork or shellfish, charging interest on loans, and a whole bunch of other restrictions that were a part of the Old Testament Law Code. But for Christians, the Old Testament doesn't (dare I say "shouldn't?") settle any issue because Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the law. Which is probably why most Christians today eat meat, use credit cards, wear makeup, and support equality for women. Because, as Hebrews 8:13 says, the old law is obsolete and aging.

When people turn away from God (Romans 1:26-27)

"Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones; in the same way, men committed shameful acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

This is where Vines really digs in on the the cultural context angle. In Biblical times, same-sex behavior was primarily seen as happening between adult men and adolescent boys (masters and servants — yikes), via prostitution, and by men who were married to women. In all of those cases, we can see why it would have been viewed as sinful, excessive, lustful, and against God's law. But he makes no mention of love, commitment, faithfulness, or the type of same-sex relationships that are at question in the debate around marriage. (By the way, Paul also says that men having long hair is "unnatural" and that women shouldn't speak in church, so it's clear Paul himself may have had some issues of his own.)

Uses of the Greek works "Malakoi" and "Arsenokoitai" 
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) (1 Timothy 1:10)

These words are included in the New Testament's lists of people who will not inherit God's kingdom. And there has been much debate over their original meaning. (Translating ancient words is hard, guys.) Some believe them to mean homosexuality and sodomy, whereas others have said that the closest modern translation would be "dirty old men." Ha! Here's how Vines explains it:

Many modern translators have rendered these terms as sweeping statements about gay people, but the concept of sexual orientation didn't even exist in the ancient world. Yes, Paul did not take a positive view of same-sex relations (nor did he support women speaking in church...), but the context he was writing in is worlds apart from gay people in committed, monogamous relationships. The Bible never addresses the issues of sexual orientation or same-sex marriage, so there's no reason why faithful Christians can't support their gay brothers and sisters.

Fascinating, right?

If you'd like to learn more and hear Matthew Vines' story, check out the video above and his book "God and the Gay Christian."




30/09/2017 11:56 PM


Biblianut
Re :   Gay Marriages

 As a responsible Christian, it is comforting to note Churches confirm their commitment to the God given institution of marriage between a man and a women only. Those that don't have lost the plot completely.

https://www.eternitynews.com.au/in-depth/fact-check-what-do-christian-churches-really-think-about-same-sex-marriage/


18/09/2017 5:24 PM


Biblianut
Re :   What are you reading at the moment ?

Hey Neddles, you just need to be appreciative of those that have come before you, have done most of the hard work.
With out the help and blessing of the Spirit in their lives, many of us would still be in as much ignorance today as there was/is in Revival.

Nothing comes easy, much work and sacrifice is still 
required and God will make things new.

God bless

Ralph.


17/09/2017 7:30 AM


Zamoz
Re :   What are you reading at the moment ?

 How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth
Book by Gordon Fee

Well written, but it seems a lot of work to just understand the Bible, Surely or Flying High movie Shirly, it must be easier to read the good book than taking 500 hours to work out the meaning of a scripture, then not every one will come to the same conclusion.

Neddles is still searching


17/09/2017 6:07 AM


Zamoz
Re :   Gay Marriages

 The question should be via the postal vote, Do you want freedom of choice/ belief/ speech,, I think 95% of Australians would say yes, so automaticlly if Homosexuals want to form a bond it has nothing to with those who don,t like it.

Second question on the postal vote should be,  Is the word marriage to be used for a man- woman only, again most Aussies would vote yes.

So now a gay couple can be joined together, under not marriage but let then come up with their own word, for the Male- female here's your Marriage certificate, for the gays here's your Civil bond/ civil Union/ Gay bondship, certificate or what ever word the gay want to use, except the word marriage, SO the question asking do you want gay marriage, will force a lot of christians to vote No, God gave humans the choice my way or no eternal life, I can not find a quote where God said be angry and despise Gays and those who don't live their life God's way.

Love you fellow man woman as your own child.


10/09/2017 5:46 AM


Biblianut
Re :   Gay Marriages

About not judging.

The Bible says that Christians should not judge the morality nor the behaviour of others”.

This always comes from those supporting things like same-sex marriage.

Luke 6:37 is often quoted.

This is true, but taken out of context.

If we look further, we find Jesus did not relieve us of the need for discerning right and wrong.

Christians are not to judge hypocritically or self-righteously (Matt 7:1-5) but it does not preclude another person's basic character and we evaluate between good and bad people (sexual immorality in this case). Not a case of judging but pointing out the wrong and showing which direction to go. for ones own good.

Teaching about the Kingdom, of course, should be given in accordance with the learners spiritual capacity (V6).

Sadly,people don't realise that God is 'sovereign' and it is he that judges good and evil.

The bible is written and instruction is given for our own good, in this life and that to come.


Ralph



08/08/2017 6:08 AM


Stawde
Re :   Leaving the GRC and Salvation

 I found the answer in the GRC history section. Sorry for posting it in the wrong place. Obviously I am new and not from GRC and never shall be after reading this forum. Thanks.


14/07/2017 8:33 PM


Stawde
Re :   Leaving the GRC and Salvation

 Is the revival center in Mumbai/Goa in India affiliated with GRC? The pastor is someone with the name of Colaco. A member was trying to recruit us and I wanted to know more. 


14/07/2017 12:24 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   Reply To Didaktikon

Good evening, all.

The results of the 2016 Australian census are progressively being released. I hope to post a summary soon, listing the most up-to-date adherence figures for the Revival Centres and the Revival Fellowship.

God bless,

Ian



28/06/2017 5:34 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   Reply To Zamoz

Zamoz,

Iv moved on, Its nice to keep the seat warm, on sundays, with the only church around for 300 k, even though he's a Roman Catholic priest, the word could come from any pastor, in most of his sermons, he's not against full water baptism if people want it, but he never ask them if they want it, and for the babies, is just get them wet, then later when they have the understanding, they can go for the full dip. Baptism happens once. Being baptised as a child in a Christian communion doesn't equal "getting a baby wet", it equals baptism. So anyone who suggests, mandates or demands that "full dips" occur later in that child's life clearly doesn't understand Old and New Testament biblical theology, nor the explicit New Testament teaching on baptism itself.

There are a few people here all indigenous who said they would like to meet for a house bible reading and explaining of the text, like why full baptism is needed, might scan the net and get some good points and scripture, slow and easy. "Full baptism", which you obviously take to be baptism by immersion, is no greater or lesser a form of baptism than is baptism by pouring. That you don't understand this tells me you're not ready to be teaching others yet.

Blessings,

Ian


24/06/2017 10:13 PM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Zamoz,

'Sex sins' etc is no different from any form of sin, save the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, is forgivable.
However, in the New Testament, Jesus puts a lot of emphasis on the particular subject, specifically when it comes to marriage relationships etc.
The Church's role is to support and guide those, that may have fallen to temptation and repented, back to redemption in Christ.

Accolades for attending the local church.

Baptism is not a requirement but an act of faith. Read- http://forum1.aimoo.com/revival/Please-Consider-An-examination-of-Revivalist-teachings-and-doctrines/Baptism-1-1020829.html

Ralph







23/06/2017 11:44 PM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 I never stop wondering why RCI and others put people out for just fornication, in the above post there are many sins against defilement, yet they just put their hand into the sin bin and only pull out Sex sins, I never understand why they think sex sins are the sin they must put people out, a strange legalism in their brain that a sex sin is unforgiven, they show little fruits of the spirit in Love forgiveness.

Iv moved on, Its nice to keep the seat warm, on sundays, with the only church around for 300 k, even though he's a Roman Catholic priest, the word could come from any pastor, in most of his sermons, he's not against full water baptism if people want it, but he never ask them if they want it, and for the babies, is just get them wet, then later when they have the understanding, they can go for the full dip.

There are a few people here all indigenous who said they would like to meet for a house bible reading and explaining of the text, like why full baptism is needed, might scan the net and get some good points and scripture, slow and easy.


23/06/2017 9:11 AM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Copy and paste from "Got any questions.org", https://www.gotquestions.org/fruit-of-the-Holy-Spirit.html  

may be helpful.-


 Question: "What is the fruit of the Holy Spirit?"

Answer: Galatians 5:22-23 tells us, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” The fruit of the Holy Spirit is the result of the Holy Spirit’s presence in the life of a Christian. The Bible makes it clear that everyone receives the Holy Spirit the moment he or she believes in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13-14). One of the primary purposes of the Holy Spirit coming into a Christian's life is to change that life. It is the Holy Spirit's job to conform us to the image of Christ, making us more like Him.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is in direct contrast with the acts of the sinful nature in Galatians 5:19-21, “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” This passage describes all people, to varying degrees, when they do not know Christ and therefore are not under the influence of the Holy Spirit. Our sinful flesh produces certain types of fruit that reflect our nature, and the Holy Spirit produces types of fruit that reflect His nature.

The Christian life is a battle of the sinful flesh against the new nature given by Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). As fallen human beings, we are still trapped in a body that desires sinful things (Romans 7:14-25). As Christians, we have the Holy Spirit producing His fruit in us and we have the Holy Spirit's power available to conquer the acts of the sinful nature (2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13). A Christian will never be completely victorious in always demonstrating the fruits of the Holy Spirit. It is one of the main purposes of the Christian life, though, to progressively allow the Holy Spirit to produce more and more of His fruit in our lives—and to allow the Holy Spirit to conquer the opposing sinful desires. The fruit of the Spirit is what God desires our lives to exhibit and, with the Holy Spirit's help, it is possible!

More on Spiritual gifts.- https://www.gotquestions.org/QOTW.htm



19/06/2017 5:58 PM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Salvation is simply a processof confessing and believing, that Jesus died and rose again for our sins, tomake way for acceptance by the father we are worthy, before this nothing we didwould be acceptable to enter eternal rest. A man must confess that Jesus isLord, which signifies his realization that Christ must have full rule over hislife with all His righteous requirements, from his we show outward belief bybeing baptised into the corporate Christian church.

Saved from what, for mesaved from the evil of this world mankind and his crimes and thoughts againstGod, then to produce the fruits of the spirit as evidence you are followingJesus way.



19/06/2017 4:38 AM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles, 

So I was looking to do a Fri-Sat evening Talk/ chat/ asking are they Baptised/ do they want to be saved/..........

I'm curious to know how you would answer those, if they wanted to know, "how to be saved" and what from?

Ralph.


26/05/2017 8:15 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Thanks Ian

Only Church in town is Roman Catholic, next town is 300k away dirt road about 6-7 hours drive.

So I was looking to do a Fri-Sat evening Talk/ chat/ asking are they Baptised/ do they want to be saved/ do they find it hard to not want to get revenge on their neighbour/ why they want revenge or hate their neighbour, do they believe God can help, Once I get to that stage, I can proceed further with whos interested in doing some bible study working through scripture to help them decide is Gods way the best way for keeping peace, Starts off more like a mediation process.

Yuendumu community 6 years ago, same problem with fights, hatred, took 2 years for the town to come to agreement, lots of Social workers Elders many meetings to get to a decision to stop the violence, in the mean time, some 12 local christians meet weekly for a service in a private house, I got invited in, got asked to do some easy understandably talks on forgivness, most of which I found on the net and took notes and gave scripture quotes, English is their second language, you may remember Ally Waria from Brisbane, she came out here, small world, All I can do is see wait and find my place, if there is one in this Indigenous community, let the spirit lead me as God wills.

Here is one of many vid of street fights in town, there's a whole FB page of fights 100s, this one is not that violent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGIubtqroNc

Thanks for the chat

Godspeed

Neddles


24/05/2017 8:58 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles,

My advice to you would be this: based on what you've shared thus far, you're probably not adequately prepared or equipped to take on the responsibility of teaching others in a small group yet. I reckon you'd be better served joining a local Christian church and committing yourself to it first, in lockstep with continuing your current ministry of practical help and engagement within the community.

When all is said and done, there are no valid reasons, and no valid excuses, for a Christian not being discipled in a local church.

Blessings,

Ian


19/05/2017 10:12 PM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 So not a good idea to have a bible chat group in the community, 1 against.
I did start a small bible talk group up in a community Indigenous back in 2002, it was aimed at the kids, I started to walk around town with a wheelie bin after work and pick up all the rubbish in the street, about 3 k of road, so I would do a bit every day,  some kids joined me to help out, they got rewarded with a ride out of town to the tip, to them the 3 k trip was fun, then I gave them some food, soon word got around and every afternoon the kids got more involved, with more kids helping, got about 25 on average, so invited an adult Indigenous to help supervise, 5 kids would sit in the back of the truck 1 in the front plus the Adult, for the drive to the tip every day, never got out of first gear about 20k/per hour, then on Saturday the kids who help out the most would get to go to the Black Boy camp, about 20K out of town and hunt for Porkipines, and pick up fire wood, when we came back we would boil up potatoes with bread and butter, by now I had 2 adults helping out, So I got use of the local hall and the kitchen on Saturday afternoon after the Black Boy run with the kids and adults and started to say a prayer before having the snack, soon other mums and dad started to come along after the rubbish cleanup and tip trips, they just loved the Great stories of the bible, raising from the dead, Samson, we had a TV in the hall got some bible movies, Saturday tip run turned into a chat study about the bible, got the kids entertained, spoke about why its not ok to fight, bully other kids, 3 months later we had 15 adults 20+ kids coming to the hall for several hours, 

We were 3 hours from Rocky, and a local church there asked if the could come out, they read about my afternoons in the local paper, so the Pastor and friends would come out every second Saturday for the fun games bible chat stay the night and stay for a Sunday morning service, then head back to rocky, but that community was reasonable quite, compared to the current one I am in, and closed to a major city.

Any advice is most welcome, wait and see what happens I suppose, I hate a dirty town so I'll be doing the same thing talking to the locals with wheelie bin in hand after work picking up rubbish and see what comes about, Outreach by Stealth, sooner or later usually the woman are the most friendly to a Whitey, they say I am not well or we need more rooms, the toilet needs fixing, I can help out with maintenance, and with your illness can I have a prayer for you, I am no great evangelist, preacher or talker, but should we not pass on the word in our daily lives, some churches do have regular weekly outreaches, I never been go at starting a conversation up cold turkey about God, but I am good at civil housing construction, walking the street saying hello in a casual manner to find what needs to be done, rather than call a community meeting to express their troubles, improvements they want done.

Whats right or wrong with the method??, is there a legalism I am applying that I should not be doing in my thinking??

Neddles


16/05/2017 3:12 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

  I've always had a hard time thinking, How can you (Priest) wear such things and make you look and act holy, gives a false show to followers, then there is all the other paraphernalia stations of the cross, blessing one self, sprinkling, Etc, big time events in the Philippines. Sprinkling baptisms, statues, gold chalice the list goes on, seems to me once you start one ritual others follow, the more rituals the more it takes away from the teachings, I must think , They have their reward in, out ward presentations.

SO I always get caught out when I see such people, the way I think, Praise the lord I say to my self, don't judge, forgive me Jesus I just failed again, I must improve, those people who dress like that, in some way are still passing on some of jesus ways to those who listen, Like the Local Priest said, They come to me when they see the collar, might not agree with that or his church doctrine, but there are some basic love the RC church gives out. let them be.

So now the question is, will I play along with the only church in town, as it was the church who made the mission back 80 years ago.
I have been thinking about putting out some leaflets for a local house meeting, bible study basic, as my job I get to meet every one in town thats Wadeye, a vile revengeful place, plenty riots, tribe squabbles, social problems hatred, just the usual Indigenous community I go to after they settle down to rebuild, been doing it 30+ years, just take it in my stride, seen it all before, petrol sniffing, bashing old grandmothers with fence paling, open fist fights in the street, drugs, smelly people, mind boggling for someone new to the experience, praise God keep me alive this long, been 2 years since first was coming here, was put off twice due to violence, now things are ripe, government money rebuilding, so they asked me to come out, as a specialist Indigenous Trainer builder, 

Get that feeling I should start a meeting group up, probable during the week Friday night, Learning this new Legalism, by trying not to down grade the local RC church, or what others or doing, or judging who bashed who, and who dresses wrong, Must think forgiveness, and no judging, accept all.

As I don't have a regular church home church, closest home church would be a group near my home base Ipswich, last time there was 2 years ago, so I move around with work, never been able to stay in one place long enough, plenty prayer asking for a steady job, but when ones job is complete into the next one, from 6 to 18 months most last.

What advice can the this  board give to a fellow traveller christian, wanting to start up a house meeting, every community I have been in before has had several church groups in town, very strange the largest community in NT has only one church with 2500 population. Worrabinda has population of 500+ and had several churches, some churches visit once a month from the larger towns and bring out their followers, some every 2 weeks, during the off week there would be house meetings, but this new place has just one, no one has come from any other churches to start up a new group, there are a few from Darwin who come for outreach, fishing trip a few times a year, that's real fishing barra and do some church service or put on nights entertainment, got me stumped why only RC are based here, either way Uncle Neddles is getting itchy feet and needs more in my life. its eat sleep and work here, some other bible needs wanted. The hairs on the neck stand up when in a RC church, I was brought up as RC,

Open for suggestions, what would be a good opening talk? what heading to put on the leaflet drop??? An alternative to stopping suicide, in your community, (Indigenous communities have twice the death rate of standard Australia) or Living Working and Surviving in Indigenous communities for 40 years from a white fella, Bringing peace to you and your family, Forgiving your neighbour is from God.

Any help would be thankful. Plenty time to talk to my self here, time for prayer and ask directions.

Neddles


15/05/2017 10:02 AM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Ian,

I was extremely bigoted toward the wearing of investments in churches today. This I realize it just came from Revivalist thinking and is trivial. Much more important matters to focus on.

My minister explained it comes over from OT teaching and is mainly church tradition and identifies the position of office within.

Ralph. 




13/05/2017 10:14 PM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles,

If anyone is worried about a priest wearing vestments, then s/he is worrying over trifling cultural matters of no spiritual consequence whatsoever. It might help to think of it this way: there are occasions when it's valid for me to wear a doctoral gown and bonnet. There are occasions when it's valid for me to wear a business suit. And there are occasions when it's valid for me to wear 'boardies' and thongs. It's the context of each occasion that determines the validity or otherwise of what it is I wear. Similarly, in the more liturgical communions of the Christian Church the wearing of vestments by clergy is perfectly valid in the context of a church service, or the delivery of a sacrament.

Blessings,

Ian


12/05/2017 5:19 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Some advance on a thought, is defilement a method way that can be brought about by visual appearance, If it is not what you take in both internal and through the mind by seeing, then the way a Priest Pastor dresses will not affect the outcome what they preach. But humans judge by the way a person dresses, the Roman Church likes to dress its servants in some pretty colourful outfits, wear collar backwards, caps for the pope, legalism by the church telling the priest to wear, but when asking the local roman servant does he feel it a need to wear a dress costume to preach, he says no I don't need it, but the local who attend the church like to see me wear the outfit, they feel some respect when the priest attends the footy match, for all to see me in the religious outfit, as well it helps others to identify me as a man of the cloth, so much ado on match day, many a visiting team members see me dressed as such and I get people coming up to me with life questions, if I was dressed as everyone does, then how do people come up to me, a shy person may not ask a stranger, where is the local Priest, so with out my collar, i would just blend in, and miss a lot of opportunities to talk to troubled souls. That was a good point, witnessing by default, they come to you, so is it a legalism to say, ! But christ never wore distinctive clothes or collar, he just used healings. your wrong to do so, So I keep quite and play along with the local priest.
Neddles




11/05/2017 1:34 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Legalism, A long way to get to understanding that concept, 30 years and still learning, Just read Sabbath of Christ, ex pastor from SDA wrote about what day is the sabbath, short answer every day is a day of rest in the lord, and goes into great detail from bible to prove his point that Seventh Day church have it wrong, gave me clear and better understanding of what the Sabbath was and now is, but in his book he writes, can a person murder. rape, do drugs, show me where it is written in today's law that you can not or don't do these things, you can do these things, it is expected that a moral person of today understands this, so there is nothing to stop a christian doing these things, the law of the land only states If you do these things this is the penalty---------, there is no law that states do not murder, but in christ what commandments he gave were or should have been standard moral understanding of life, so some hard laws under the OT were written, with the do not do or else, so jesus fore filled the OT law and now were have, treat you neighbour (other persons) as you would have them treat you, some common sense, if you see a sin in some one , then he who has not sinned can judge them, other wise show then the error of their way, that as spirit filled christian you need to follow what jesus said did and walked in every day life.

Your writing of Legalism in past post, and reading Sabbath in christ, joined the dots together, there should be no rules, law written by a church in reference to a christian life, like RCI if you have sex out side marriage your out, rather than they or any church should be saying lets us look at scripture, and correct your walk if you want eternal life, sex out side marriage defiles the temple in you lets work out if you want to walk towards eternal life in Christ.

I look back at all the churches I been to over the years, due to my work as a contractor travelling from job to job, some of the strange things i've seen and thought there a strange mob, Kalgoolie there was a church that for some reason had 50 + flags at the front of the church, when the hymns started people went up and grab a flag on a stick and waved it in the air, flags of the world, asked what the flag waving was for, support other countries as we have a big multinational group here, some one brought a flag from Africa where they came from and put it in the corner with the Aussie flag, some years later we have 50 +. I thought it strange at the time, nothing to do with the bible, other than some people thought it gives support to all the different cultures that are present in the church, Now I look back how I judged them, SAD, a bit like some churches like hands raising, one church during songs would all ways say raise your hands to God, felt like a bit of a fool putting my hands in the air, but hey, it was the only church in town, again I look back and think, nothing in the bible says don't raise hands.

A lesson learnt, some time learning it, but now I can look forward to not judging, but if need be from commandments correct a wayward person, after 2 -3 witness if they fail to hear, dust off  the effort and let them be, rather than trying to find scripture to condemn them. How a single word from you and a book opened my eyes.

Neddles







10/05/2017 9:23 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles,

It's the prerogative of the church corporately to exercise judgment respecting a believer's behaviour when Scripture is silent on a particular matter, it's not your job individually and neither is it mine. And external practices you may believe important discriminators might be considered trivial or inconsequential by mature and knowledgeable Christians, your issue with smoking for example. Finally, given the position you've espoused in two posts now, I harbor no doubts you're unaware the Apostle Paul used vulgar expressions in his letters that probably would've caused many a fragile Christian matron to blush! Are you more spiritually-minded than he?

In closing, if cinematic violence and occasional course language is sufficient to cause someone to stumble, then such a one would've been shocked positively senseless by the everyday culture of the first century Roman world!

My advice to you? Go back and review the very point Jesus was seeking to get across in my earlier quoting of the Gospel According to Mark 7:14b-17.

Blessings,

Ian  


08/05/2017 3:46 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

  legalism would be judging or make a decree such as Thou shall not, or thou shall do, then the church makes a judgement, as per your example smoking.

Is is not in the interest of the church community to preach what could happen? to a christian if they follow the path of say heavy metal curse words songs, If a christian follows in the lord and exhibits a clean life and shows the fruits of the spirits, buts listens to the vulgar heavy metal music, then he could be congratulated for never letting the music change his speech, but then there could be a soul in the lord who has less will power and may well start to imulate the curse words, Like drinking, RCI said no drinking, I remember some being put out for alcohol use, I find nothing wrong with drink, I would have a nip or 2 a week, some times several weeks go past with out a drink, But I would never drink in front of anyone from church who might visit my home, less they could be a past alcoholic, or the general public work friends, I never offer strong drink.

As in the case of hellavission story above, does a church brother who sees another brother watching all these movies of violence not intervene and suggest that, consuming such things may influence there thoughts or speech, would Jesus watch that with you, maybe he would to convert you, but to watch on a daily basis, I think we have a duty to our fellow christian to advise them or correct them, if indulgence in this world is taking them away from the lord's work

I personally like the Hellavision story, and makes for a good short talk in house meetings, the idea is it will get the those present, to think is it affecting me, or does it just go in one ear and out the other, My belief is such things slowly wear away at our thoughts and can affect our walk in the lord, same with smoking, we are a temple, keep it clean, so when a christian smokes, I think he should be corrected to look forward to the coming Christ, and is that the way to treat his body with toxic pollution, I agree that no time frame is required, if we did then we would be putting then under the law, which we are not.

This is because the weak, immature Christian always wants somebody to put him under law, but if you put a Christian under law, then he is no longer under grace! And Paul knows that Christians must learn to deal with what he calls "the law of liberty." 

The old covenant law was external—written on stone. The new covenant law is internal—written on our hearts. The new covenant Lawgiver is present in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.


Neddles

remote outback


07/05/2017 10:59 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Hi, Neddles.

What you've written sounds pretty much like legalism to me.

Blessings,

Ian


05/05/2017 7:47 PM

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