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Didaktikon
Re :   Reply To Zamoz

Zamoz,

Iv moved on, Its nice to keep the seat warm, on sundays, with the only church around for 300 k, even though he's a Roman Catholic priest, the word could come from any pastor, in most of his sermons, he's not against full water baptism if people want it, but he never ask them if they want it, and for the babies, is just get them wet, then later when they have the understanding, they can go for the full dip. Baptism happens once. Being baptised as a child in a Christian communion doesn't equal "getting a baby wet", it equals baptism. So anyone who suggests, mandates or demands that "full dips" occur later in that child's life clearly doesn't understand Old and New Testament biblical theology, nor the explicit New Testament teaching on baptism itself.

There are a few people here all indigenous who said they would like to meet for a house bible reading and explaining of the text, like why full baptism is needed, might scan the net and get some good points and scripture, slow and easy. "Full baptism", which you obviously take to be baptism by immersion, is no greater or lesser a form of baptism than is baptism by pouring. That you don't understand this tells me you're not ready to be teaching others yet.

Blessings,

Ian


24/06/2017 10:13 PM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Zamoz,

'Sex sins' etc is no different from any form of sin, save the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, is forgivable.
However, in the New Testament, Jesus puts a lot of emphasis on the particular subject, specifically when it comes to marriage relationships etc.
The Church's role is to support and guide those, that may have fallen to temptation and repented, back to redemption in Christ.

Accolades for attending the local church.

Baptism is not a requirement but an act of faith. Read- http://forum1.aimoo.com/revival/Please-Consider-An-examination-of-Revivalist-teachings-and-doctrines/Baptism-1-1020829.html

Ralph







23/06/2017 11:44 PM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 I never stop wondering why RCI and others put people out for just fornication, in the above post there are many sins against defilement, yet they just put their hand into the sin bin and only pull out Sex sins, I never understand why they think sex sins are the sin they must put people out, a strange legalism in their brain that a sex sin is unforgiven, they show little fruits of the spirit in Love forgiveness.

Iv moved on, Its nice to keep the seat warm, on sundays, with the only church around for 300 k, even though he's a Roman Catholic priest, the word could come from any pastor, in most of his sermons, he's not against full water baptism if people want it, but he never ask them if they want it, and for the babies, is just get them wet, then later when they have the understanding, they can go for the full dip.

There are a few people here all indigenous who said they would like to meet for a house bible reading and explaining of the text, like why full baptism is needed, might scan the net and get some good points and scripture, slow and easy.


23/06/2017 9:11 AM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Copy and paste from "Got any questions.org", https://www.gotquestions.org/fruit-of-the-Holy-Spirit.html  

may be helpful.-


 Question: "What is the fruit of the Holy Spirit?"

Answer: Galatians 5:22-23 tells us, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” The fruit of the Holy Spirit is the result of the Holy Spirit’s presence in the life of a Christian. The Bible makes it clear that everyone receives the Holy Spirit the moment he or she believes in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13-14). One of the primary purposes of the Holy Spirit coming into a Christian's life is to change that life. It is the Holy Spirit's job to conform us to the image of Christ, making us more like Him.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is in direct contrast with the acts of the sinful nature in Galatians 5:19-21, “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” This passage describes all people, to varying degrees, when they do not know Christ and therefore are not under the influence of the Holy Spirit. Our sinful flesh produces certain types of fruit that reflect our nature, and the Holy Spirit produces types of fruit that reflect His nature.

The Christian life is a battle of the sinful flesh against the new nature given by Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). As fallen human beings, we are still trapped in a body that desires sinful things (Romans 7:14-25). As Christians, we have the Holy Spirit producing His fruit in us and we have the Holy Spirit's power available to conquer the acts of the sinful nature (2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13). A Christian will never be completely victorious in always demonstrating the fruits of the Holy Spirit. It is one of the main purposes of the Christian life, though, to progressively allow the Holy Spirit to produce more and more of His fruit in our lives—and to allow the Holy Spirit to conquer the opposing sinful desires. The fruit of the Spirit is what God desires our lives to exhibit and, with the Holy Spirit's help, it is possible!

More on Spiritual gifts.- https://www.gotquestions.org/QOTW.htm



19/06/2017 5:58 PM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Salvation is simply a processof confessing and believing, that Jesus died and rose again for our sins, tomake way for acceptance by the father we are worthy, before this nothing we didwould be acceptable to enter eternal rest. A man must confess that Jesus isLord, which signifies his realization that Christ must have full rule over hislife with all His righteous requirements, from his we show outward belief bybeing baptised into the corporate Christian church.

Saved from what, for mesaved from the evil of this world mankind and his crimes and thoughts againstGod, then to produce the fruits of the spirit as evidence you are followingJesus way.



19/06/2017 4:38 AM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles, 

So I was looking to do a Fri-Sat evening Talk/ chat/ asking are they Baptised/ do they want to be saved/..........

I'm curious to know how you would answer those, if they wanted to know, "how to be saved" and what from?

Ralph.


26/05/2017 8:15 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Thanks Ian

Only Church in town is Roman Catholic, next town is 300k away dirt road about 6-7 hours drive.

So I was looking to do a Fri-Sat evening Talk/ chat/ asking are they Baptised/ do they want to be saved/ do they find it hard to not want to get revenge on their neighbour/ why they want revenge or hate their neighbour, do they believe God can help, Once I get to that stage, I can proceed further with whos interested in doing some bible study working through scripture to help them decide is Gods way the best way for keeping peace, Starts off more like a mediation process.

Yuendumu community 6 years ago, same problem with fights, hatred, took 2 years for the town to come to agreement, lots of Social workers Elders many meetings to get to a decision to stop the violence, in the mean time, some 12 local christians meet weekly for a service in a private house, I got invited in, got asked to do some easy understandably talks on forgivness, most of which I found on the net and took notes and gave scripture quotes, English is their second language, you may remember Ally Waria from Brisbane, she came out here, small world, All I can do is see wait and find my place, if there is one in this Indigenous community, let the spirit lead me as God wills.

Here is one of many vid of street fights in town, there's a whole FB page of fights 100s, this one is not that violent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGIubtqroNc

Thanks for the chat

Godspeed

Neddles


24/05/2017 8:58 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles,

My advice to you would be this: based on what you've shared thus far, you're probably not adequately prepared or equipped to take on the responsibility of teaching others in a small group yet. I reckon you'd be better served joining a local Christian church and committing yourself to it first, in lockstep with continuing your current ministry of practical help and engagement within the community.

When all is said and done, there are no valid reasons, and no valid excuses, for a Christian not being discipled in a local church.

Blessings,

Ian


19/05/2017 10:12 PM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 So not a good idea to have a bible chat group in the community, 1 against.
I did start a small bible talk group up in a community Indigenous back in 2002, it was aimed at the kids, I started to walk around town with a wheelie bin after work and pick up all the rubbish in the street, about 3 k of road, so I would do a bit every day,  some kids joined me to help out, they got rewarded with a ride out of town to the tip, to them the 3 k trip was fun, then I gave them some food, soon word got around and every afternoon the kids got more involved, with more kids helping, got about 25 on average, so invited an adult Indigenous to help supervise, 5 kids would sit in the back of the truck 1 in the front plus the Adult, for the drive to the tip every day, never got out of first gear about 20k/per hour, then on Saturday the kids who help out the most would get to go to the Black Boy camp, about 20K out of town and hunt for Porkipines, and pick up fire wood, when we came back we would boil up potatoes with bread and butter, by now I had 2 adults helping out, So I got use of the local hall and the kitchen on Saturday afternoon after the Black Boy run with the kids and adults and started to say a prayer before having the snack, soon other mums and dad started to come along after the rubbish cleanup and tip trips, they just loved the Great stories of the bible, raising from the dead, Samson, we had a TV in the hall got some bible movies, Saturday tip run turned into a chat study about the bible, got the kids entertained, spoke about why its not ok to fight, bully other kids, 3 months later we had 15 adults 20+ kids coming to the hall for several hours, 

We were 3 hours from Rocky, and a local church there asked if the could come out, they read about my afternoons in the local paper, so the Pastor and friends would come out every second Saturday for the fun games bible chat stay the night and stay for a Sunday morning service, then head back to rocky, but that community was reasonable quite, compared to the current one I am in, and closed to a major city.

Any advice is most welcome, wait and see what happens I suppose, I hate a dirty town so I'll be doing the same thing talking to the locals with wheelie bin in hand after work picking up rubbish and see what comes about, Outreach by Stealth, sooner or later usually the woman are the most friendly to a Whitey, they say I am not well or we need more rooms, the toilet needs fixing, I can help out with maintenance, and with your illness can I have a prayer for you, I am no great evangelist, preacher or talker, but should we not pass on the word in our daily lives, some churches do have regular weekly outreaches, I never been go at starting a conversation up cold turkey about God, but I am good at civil housing construction, walking the street saying hello in a casual manner to find what needs to be done, rather than call a community meeting to express their troubles, improvements they want done.

Whats right or wrong with the method??, is there a legalism I am applying that I should not be doing in my thinking??

Neddles


16/05/2017 3:12 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

  I've always had a hard time thinking, How can you (Priest) wear such things and make you look and act holy, gives a false show to followers, then there is all the other paraphernalia stations of the cross, blessing one self, sprinkling, Etc, big time events in the Philippines. Sprinkling baptisms, statues, gold chalice the list goes on, seems to me once you start one ritual others follow, the more rituals the more it takes away from the teachings, I must think , They have their reward in, out ward presentations.

SO I always get caught out when I see such people, the way I think, Praise the lord I say to my self, don't judge, forgive me Jesus I just failed again, I must improve, those people who dress like that, in some way are still passing on some of jesus ways to those who listen, Like the Local Priest said, They come to me when they see the collar, might not agree with that or his church doctrine, but there are some basic love the RC church gives out. let them be.

So now the question is, will I play along with the only church in town, as it was the church who made the mission back 80 years ago.
I have been thinking about putting out some leaflets for a local house meeting, bible study basic, as my job I get to meet every one in town thats Wadeye, a vile revengeful place, plenty riots, tribe squabbles, social problems hatred, just the usual Indigenous community I go to after they settle down to rebuild, been doing it 30+ years, just take it in my stride, seen it all before, petrol sniffing, bashing old grandmothers with fence paling, open fist fights in the street, drugs, smelly people, mind boggling for someone new to the experience, praise God keep me alive this long, been 2 years since first was coming here, was put off twice due to violence, now things are ripe, government money rebuilding, so they asked me to come out, as a specialist Indigenous Trainer builder, 

Get that feeling I should start a meeting group up, probable during the week Friday night, Learning this new Legalism, by trying not to down grade the local RC church, or what others or doing, or judging who bashed who, and who dresses wrong, Must think forgiveness, and no judging, accept all.

As I don't have a regular church home church, closest home church would be a group near my home base Ipswich, last time there was 2 years ago, so I move around with work, never been able to stay in one place long enough, plenty prayer asking for a steady job, but when ones job is complete into the next one, from 6 to 18 months most last.

What advice can the this  board give to a fellow traveller christian, wanting to start up a house meeting, every community I have been in before has had several church groups in town, very strange the largest community in NT has only one church with 2500 population. Worrabinda has population of 500+ and had several churches, some churches visit once a month from the larger towns and bring out their followers, some every 2 weeks, during the off week there would be house meetings, but this new place has just one, no one has come from any other churches to start up a new group, there are a few from Darwin who come for outreach, fishing trip a few times a year, that's real fishing barra and do some church service or put on nights entertainment, got me stumped why only RC are based here, either way Uncle Neddles is getting itchy feet and needs more in my life. its eat sleep and work here, some other bible needs wanted. The hairs on the neck stand up when in a RC church, I was brought up as RC,

Open for suggestions, what would be a good opening talk? what heading to put on the leaflet drop??? An alternative to stopping suicide, in your community, (Indigenous communities have twice the death rate of standard Australia) or Living Working and Surviving in Indigenous communities for 40 years from a white fella, Bringing peace to you and your family, Forgiving your neighbour is from God.

Any help would be thankful. Plenty time to talk to my self here, time for prayer and ask directions.

Neddles


15/05/2017 10:02 AM


Biblianut
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Ian,

I was extremely bigoted toward the wearing of investments in churches today. This I realize it just came from Revivalist thinking and is trivial. Much more important matters to focus on.

My minister explained it comes over from OT teaching and is mainly church tradition and identifies the position of office within.

Ralph. 




13/05/2017 10:14 PM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles,

If anyone is worried about a priest wearing vestments, then s/he is worrying over trifling cultural matters of no spiritual consequence whatsoever. It might help to think of it this way: there are occasions when it's valid for me to wear a doctoral gown and bonnet. There are occasions when it's valid for me to wear a business suit. And there are occasions when it's valid for me to wear 'boardies' and thongs. It's the context of each occasion that determines the validity or otherwise of what it is I wear. Similarly, in the more liturgical communions of the Christian Church the wearing of vestments by clergy is perfectly valid in the context of a church service, or the delivery of a sacrament.

Blessings,

Ian


12/05/2017 5:19 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Some advance on a thought, is defilement a method way that can be brought about by visual appearance, If it is not what you take in both internal and through the mind by seeing, then the way a Priest Pastor dresses will not affect the outcome what they preach. But humans judge by the way a person dresses, the Roman Church likes to dress its servants in some pretty colourful outfits, wear collar backwards, caps for the pope, legalism by the church telling the priest to wear, but when asking the local roman servant does he feel it a need to wear a dress costume to preach, he says no I don't need it, but the local who attend the church like to see me wear the outfit, they feel some respect when the priest attends the footy match, for all to see me in the religious outfit, as well it helps others to identify me as a man of the cloth, so much ado on match day, many a visiting team members see me dressed as such and I get people coming up to me with life questions, if I was dressed as everyone does, then how do people come up to me, a shy person may not ask a stranger, where is the local Priest, so with out my collar, i would just blend in, and miss a lot of opportunities to talk to troubled souls. That was a good point, witnessing by default, they come to you, so is it a legalism to say, ! But christ never wore distinctive clothes or collar, he just used healings. your wrong to do so, So I keep quite and play along with the local priest.
Neddles




11/05/2017 1:34 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 Legalism, A long way to get to understanding that concept, 30 years and still learning, Just read Sabbath of Christ, ex pastor from SDA wrote about what day is the sabbath, short answer every day is a day of rest in the lord, and goes into great detail from bible to prove his point that Seventh Day church have it wrong, gave me clear and better understanding of what the Sabbath was and now is, but in his book he writes, can a person murder. rape, do drugs, show me where it is written in today's law that you can not or don't do these things, you can do these things, it is expected that a moral person of today understands this, so there is nothing to stop a christian doing these things, the law of the land only states If you do these things this is the penalty---------, there is no law that states do not murder, but in christ what commandments he gave were or should have been standard moral understanding of life, so some hard laws under the OT were written, with the do not do or else, so jesus fore filled the OT law and now were have, treat you neighbour (other persons) as you would have them treat you, some common sense, if you see a sin in some one , then he who has not sinned can judge them, other wise show then the error of their way, that as spirit filled christian you need to follow what jesus said did and walked in every day life.

Your writing of Legalism in past post, and reading Sabbath in christ, joined the dots together, there should be no rules, law written by a church in reference to a christian life, like RCI if you have sex out side marriage your out, rather than they or any church should be saying lets us look at scripture, and correct your walk if you want eternal life, sex out side marriage defiles the temple in you lets work out if you want to walk towards eternal life in Christ.

I look back at all the churches I been to over the years, due to my work as a contractor travelling from job to job, some of the strange things i've seen and thought there a strange mob, Kalgoolie there was a church that for some reason had 50 + flags at the front of the church, when the hymns started people went up and grab a flag on a stick and waved it in the air, flags of the world, asked what the flag waving was for, support other countries as we have a big multinational group here, some one brought a flag from Africa where they came from and put it in the corner with the Aussie flag, some years later we have 50 +. I thought it strange at the time, nothing to do with the bible, other than some people thought it gives support to all the different cultures that are present in the church, Now I look back how I judged them, SAD, a bit like some churches like hands raising, one church during songs would all ways say raise your hands to God, felt like a bit of a fool putting my hands in the air, but hey, it was the only church in town, again I look back and think, nothing in the bible says don't raise hands.

A lesson learnt, some time learning it, but now I can look forward to not judging, but if need be from commandments correct a wayward person, after 2 -3 witness if they fail to hear, dust off  the effort and let them be, rather than trying to find scripture to condemn them. How a single word from you and a book opened my eyes.

Neddles







10/05/2017 9:23 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Neddles,

It's the prerogative of the church corporately to exercise judgment respecting a believer's behaviour when Scripture is silent on a particular matter, it's not your job individually and neither is it mine. And external practices you may believe important discriminators might be considered trivial or inconsequential by mature and knowledgeable Christians, your issue with smoking for example. Finally, given the position you've espoused in two posts now, I harbor no doubts you're unaware the Apostle Paul used vulgar expressions in his letters that probably would've caused many a fragile Christian matron to blush! Are you more spiritually-minded than he?

In closing, if cinematic violence and occasional course language is sufficient to cause someone to stumble, then such a one would've been shocked positively senseless by the everyday culture of the first century Roman world!

My advice to you? Go back and review the very point Jesus was seeking to get across in my earlier quoting of the Gospel According to Mark 7:14b-17.

Blessings,

Ian  


08/05/2017 3:46 AM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

  legalism would be judging or make a decree such as Thou shall not, or thou shall do, then the church makes a judgement, as per your example smoking.

Is is not in the interest of the church community to preach what could happen? to a christian if they follow the path of say heavy metal curse words songs, If a christian follows in the lord and exhibits a clean life and shows the fruits of the spirits, buts listens to the vulgar heavy metal music, then he could be congratulated for never letting the music change his speech, but then there could be a soul in the lord who has less will power and may well start to imulate the curse words, Like drinking, RCI said no drinking, I remember some being put out for alcohol use, I find nothing wrong with drink, I would have a nip or 2 a week, some times several weeks go past with out a drink, But I would never drink in front of anyone from church who might visit my home, less they could be a past alcoholic, or the general public work friends, I never offer strong drink.

As in the case of hellavission story above, does a church brother who sees another brother watching all these movies of violence not intervene and suggest that, consuming such things may influence there thoughts or speech, would Jesus watch that with you, maybe he would to convert you, but to watch on a daily basis, I think we have a duty to our fellow christian to advise them or correct them, if indulgence in this world is taking them away from the lord's work

I personally like the Hellavision story, and makes for a good short talk in house meetings, the idea is it will get the those present, to think is it affecting me, or does it just go in one ear and out the other, My belief is such things slowly wear away at our thoughts and can affect our walk in the lord, same with smoking, we are a temple, keep it clean, so when a christian smokes, I think he should be corrected to look forward to the coming Christ, and is that the way to treat his body with toxic pollution, I agree that no time frame is required, if we did then we would be putting then under the law, which we are not.

This is because the weak, immature Christian always wants somebody to put him under law, but if you put a Christian under law, then he is no longer under grace! And Paul knows that Christians must learn to deal with what he calls "the law of liberty." 

The old covenant law was external—written on stone. The new covenant law is internal—written on our hearts. The new covenant Lawgiver is present in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.


Neddles

remote outback


07/05/2017 10:59 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

Hi, Neddles.

What you've written sounds pretty much like legalism to me.

Blessings,

Ian


05/05/2017 7:47 PM


Zamoz
Re :   On purity, defilement and legalism

 When he was confronted by the religious challenging his failure to enforce a rigid, 'traditional' conformity regarding outwards purity, Jesus responded: “Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.” (Mark 7:14b-17, ESV)

That's sounds fine with what we consume, but what about consuming the idiot box, or the images from porn, those images will not affect me, if I take what Jesus said it's not what goes in but what comes out, then it is all right to watch porn, if I don't lust after it, or speak of it, I believe what goes into ones mind, shapes ones thoughts.

Was jesus only referring to food drink here?. not audio visual content, I say to you christians who go home after church and turns on the telly, is not a TV show with violence or any form of sexual innuendo changing your views, There is a good story I read called Hellavision/What do professed Christians think about in the darkness of their imaginations? What do they watch on hell-I-vision and unholy-wood? What do they listen to when no one is around? Could their intercourse with the world affect their ability to overcome sin? Could it hinder their relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ? James 4:4, Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness,
maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil
things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers,
without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Verse 32 is the clencher for the professed Christian that enjoys watching such things--
Who KNOWING the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, BUT HAVE PLEASURE IN THEM THAT DO THEM.
Watching/reading/listening to these things is having pleasure in them that do them. The
bottom line is that when we participate as willing observers we are having pleasure in
sinners who are sinning.No Christian should be sitting around watching hellivision and no Christian should
go to the movie theatre. Those are the devil's domains. 

Would a pastor of a church be direct enough to give a sermon like this, certainly Highway to heaven was a nice show, The brady Bunch, others as such, but what about all the days of Our Lives , Neighbours, Swartnegger movies, it thrives on sexual exploits, would it be fair to ask the church to expand their minds and teach christians, some shows, all most all, just don't cut it with Jesus theology of bringing forth the fruits of the spirit, I believe a percentage would feel insulted if they were asked not to watch such shows, Do we all need retraining??

The following is taken from, Entertainment Standards By Douglas Wilson--
Suppose, one afternoon, one of your neighbors came to your door and said something
like this.
"Mary and I would like to invite you over this evening..."
"Why, thank you!" you say, innocently enough.
"Wait, wait, that's not all. We would like to invite you to come into our bedroom and
watch us while we have [relations]. It would be a really exciting time for all of us."
You recoil in horror. "Jane and I couldn't do that. You see, we're Christians."
"Oh, I see," he says, scratching his head. "That could be a little much. I'll tell you what!
We have a video camera. Why don't you let us tape our[selves], and I'll just bring it over
in the morning. You could then watch whenever you wanted."
You explain that this wouldn't be possible either.
"I don't understand," he says, with a puzzled look. "Last week you invited us over and we
all watched that movie on your VCR. It had a couple of really good bedroom scenes in
it. Why are you willing to watch another's man wife, but not mine? Mary may not be the
best looking..."
It is at this point that you interrupt and explain that Mary's looks have nothing to do with
it. You go on to explain that you are not ordinary Christians. You belong to that special
breed called - hypocrites.

Now that would be a real stunner of a sermon to have, The pastor gets several members engaged into the discussion, and says by the way it applies to you all, That might be to blunt for todays christians to accept, or may be not, but are Christians to correct their fellow member if they see a fault in them, bring them around to a way of thinking that produces a clean mind, I say yes to more sermons like this.

My personal TV viewing is about 4 hours a week, news, and some old good value serials, I have yet to go around to a fellow christian home and not see the TV on. how about after a mid week house meeting, a % of meetings flick the TV on, after the house meeting. We should be told off more of the every day things in life that christians accept, but could lead us astray, Punk music, the lyrics of so many songs the young one listen to, but don't dare correct them, they will grow out of it, For me there is still a long way for christians to go to get closer to Jesus, 
I am still learning and mellowing, Well brother Bill if we are going to watch TV this Saturday night for fellowship dinner can we make it a Highway to heaven show, No brother Ned we want to watch Big Arnie's new movie Aftermath where he kills a dude that was controlling aircraft and caused a plane to crash, Arni gets revenge. OK brother Bill I will not be able to make it for dinner. Sundays report on meetings from the Pastor, There was a good night to be had at brother Bills house last night for those 15 who turned up for fellow ship well done, many prayers were giver for the sick who wrote in, As well as a good talk by Brother Bill on the daily sins that affect christians in every day life, those who wish to go to next months dinner see brother Bill.

I take it all in, select out what seems acceptable to most christians and ask God the same thing all these years, Lord show me the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, keep out the trash rubbish and garbage, and give me strength to forgive. I believe God put me in the RCI for a reason, all those years ago, to help me find the truth, moved me on to better worship and understanding the Gospel, through other churches

Neddles




04/05/2017 10:35 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   Reply To ExRFMason

Hello again, ExRF.

So in brief, I decided I really couldn't be bothered with opinionated, self righteous arrogance and went about my journey with God after the last post I made here. But yet here you are, attempting to justify why you wouldn't answer a few simple questions about some of the things you said, when politely asked to do so, on what is a discussion board.

I've never come across a more narcissistic display of 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' attitude outside of RCI/RF, and this is exactly why I left that movement after seeing some truths about their flawed logic. I wonder you ever survived Uni! The testing of assumptions and ideas is part-and-parcel of the process that is critical thinking. But to return to your more recent charge, perhaps you should spend some time reviewing our former engagements? I'm confident you'll discover I was open, polite, transparent and honest in sharing with you, while you were consistently evasive, judgmental, hostile and dismissive with me. So which of the two of us better demonstrated the RCI/RF's ethic of "I'm right, you're wrong"?

Respectfully Ian, you're much much the same- always wanting to 'win the argument' and prove how supreme your knowledge is. I suspect you have trouble listening to other points of view, constantly believing in you own importance above others. Actually, all I wanted to do was spend some time with you comparing and contrasting our respective positions on the compatibility or otherwise of Freemasonry with Christianity. 

I Corinthians 8:1 dear boy! Well, if we're going to engage in Revivalist proof-texting, and we really shouldn't, I'll see your 1 Corinthians 8:1 and raise you 2 Timothy 2:15; and 4:2-4!


Take a look in the mirror, realise that head knowledge means little to God, and perhaps try some humility rather than trolling around like you're some kind of Scripture Police.
Yes. Humility. I always find it ironic when Revivalists charge me with having naught but "head knowledge" because they're incapable of defending their positions from Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:16, springs to mind.

In closing it's good to have you back. I hope this time around you'll be a little more civil and obliging.

Blessings,

Ian



07/03/2017 1:33 AM


Biblianut
Re :   Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks

Hi ExRFMason,

I’m not into trying to defend Ian for what you claim he is self-opinionated, self-righteous arrogance etc. (He is quite capable of defending himself thank you).

But what I do say, is everything that Ian has said and shown us in regarding the truth of scripture is not self-opinionated, but he has done much research and reading on the subject. He has the knowledge fortunate enough to pass onto us to know what the truth is.

I’ve done much follow up on the things that have been revealed here and have found the same conclusions from other sources outside of this forum.

So in brief, I decided I really couldn't be bothered with opinionated, self-righteous arrogance and went about my journey with God after the last post I made here.

I take it still includes your opinion on Masonry?

I've never come across a more narcissistic display of 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' attitude outside of RCI/RF, and this is exactly why I left that movement after seeing some truths about their flawed logic.

I’m sorry, but shouldn’t you be aware you are just being that yourself at the moment? 

Respectfully Ian, you're much the same- always wanting to 'win the argument' and prove how supreme your knowledge is. I suspect you have trouble listening to other points of view, constantly believing in your own importance above others. 

I don’t see it like that.

I Corinthians 8:1 dear boy!

That’s just one example what the Revivalist do, ‘take scripture out of context’.

Take a look in the mirror, realise that head knowledge means little to God, and perhaps try some humility rather than trolling around like you're some kind of Scripture Police. 

I think you ought to look in the mirror yourself, a little more knowledge can go a long way in knowing what is the will and truth that God reveals in his word.

Peace be with you

Ralph



06/03/2017 2:44 AM


ExRFMason
Re :   Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks

So in brief, I decided I really couldn't be bothered with opinionated, self righteous arrogance and went about my journey with God after the last post I made here. 
I've never come across a more narcissistic display of 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' attitude outside of RCI/RF, and this is exactly why I left that movement after seeing some truths about their flawed logic. 
Respectfully Ian, you're much much the same- always wanting to 'win the argument' and prove how supreme your knowledge is. I suspect you have trouble listening to other points of view, constantly believing in you own importance above others. 
I Corinthians 8:1 dear boy!
Take a look in the mirror, realise that head knowledge means little to God, and perhaps try some humility rather than trolling around like you're some kind of Scripture Police. 








05/03/2017 8:18 AM


Biblianut


15/02/2017 4:12 PM


Uncoolman
Topic :   Inquiry into the handling of child abuse

Geelong Revival Centre

FAMILY AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE
Inquiry into the handling of child abuse by religious and other organisations
Bendigo — 14 March 2013




01/02/2017 4:30 AM


Biblianut
Topic :   N.T. Wright | Humanum 2014



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsB-JDsOTwE#



22/01/2017 5:33 AM


Biblianut
Re :   Rci pastor has been uncovered

Just a bit of feedback (2010)
http://www.smh.com.au/national/whistleblower-thrown-out-of-revival-church-20100110-m0fd.html


29/12/2016 6:13 AM


D-T-M
Re :   Rci pastor has been uncovered

 Has any prosecution of the Dukers been made yet?

Mole3


05/12/2016 9:21 PM


D-T-M
Re :   So this is Christmas

 Well we have hit the five or six year cycle again depending on the number of intervening leap years (Simon thinks it is a seven year cycle) and it has been advised that the church at Box Hill will not be open on either Christmas or what appears to be a new departure, New Years Day.

Mole


05/12/2016 9:17 PM


Didaktikon
Re :   Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks

Good morning, ExRF.

You have your views I have mine, and you have essentially tried to impose yourself and your self-professed surety of knowledge upon me without invitation. I don't know you, and I find your approach condescending I'm afraid. Maybe it's a personality clash....I'm also ex ADF & don't like the approach you come across with. This is a discussion forum. Being such, you invited input the moment you posted. It's also reasonable to highlight you seemed happy enough interacting with others, including me, until I sought clarification on several of your stated points-of-view. You've passed judgement against others from the start, and then in less-than-flattering terms. Despite this, you would rail against me for politely asking you to justify a little of what you've written? That's inconsistent, don't you think? Lastly, I'm confident I've been nothing if not polite and respectful in my interactions with you.

And yet despite such heavenly guidance you belonged to what is clearly a heretical sect for about a decade, (Actually I left after a couple of years) and more recently you've aligned yourself with an independent charismatic faith community that potentially sits on the very fringe of Christian orthodoxy. (Your opinion) Then there was your rather unfortunate and mistaken attribution of the Roman Catholic Church as being, and I quote, "the largest pagan organisation on the planet". As an aside, I often ponder whether more is attributed to the Holy Spirit's guidance than is actually warranted by the facts. Regardless, all I've sought to do is engage you in theological discussion; it's healthy, it's biblical, and I'm convinced it would be of value for the both of us. That you see the Catholic church as anything but an idolatrous religion, there's a big clue as to your 'authority' on scripture let alone wisdom & discernment. In your first post you wrote, "
God will judge these bastards harshly, and I hope that the true believers are called out from this cult. I was in Adelaide between mid 80s to mid 90s. Hope everyone is doing great post Revival." The period just quoted encompasses about a decade, but now you claim your tenure was a scant couple of years? Next, I'm open to revising my opinion on the orthodoxy of your charismatic group, but you'll need to be more forthcoming in sharing information about them and their beliefs. Which, for reasons unknown, you aren't overly keen to do. Third, for someone who has almost completed a bachelor of theology degree, your position on the Roman Catholic Church is remarkably uninformed. Seriously, your opinion on such matters should be shaped more by facts than held-over Revivalist fictions and prejudice.

Hence the very fact of research. Point One: the history of Freemasonry is very well documented, as indeed, are its rituals and beliefs. Point Two, my father and I discussed the craft at length over many years. He too claimed as you have done about the compatibility of masonic practice and Christian belief, but then he was never a Christian. And his former opinion ended after I became a practising Christian and started asking questions he didn't wish asked. I'm convinced I can can demonstrate that Freemasonry and Christianity don't make good bedfellows, but I'm keen to hear why you believe they do. So you spoke to a solitary Mason who happened to be your Dad, and now you are an expert on it? You may recall my claim was to being "very well informed about the history, beliefs and rituals of the Lodge." I stand by this statement, and would encourage you to challenge it. At this point I'll content myself by stating you seem more offended by my disapproval of the Lodge than you are by my concerns about your choice of church.

I pointed you to my history on this site to provide context to my theological positions and hermeneutical methods. Next, I've sought to engage you charitably and courteously, and then despite your furtiveness and hostile dismissiveness. You've made claims I believe are open to being challenged through theological inquiry, which, as a soon-to-be-capped bachelor of theology, you should relish the opportunity of defending.Let's just agree to disagree amicably then, shall we? Wishing you all the best along your Christian journey. Revivalists have often told me I should agree to disagree, which is naught but a convenient ruse for avoiding getting at the truth. But I'm a trained theologian, and you claim to be one too. I believe you've made several truth-claims that warrant scrutiny, but the moment I press you to validate them, you shut down.
If I may appeal via proof-texting to 1 Peter 3:15, what gives?

Blessings,

Ian


05/12/2016 7:57 PM


ExRFMason
Re :   Reply To Didaktikon

Reply to Didaktikon

Hi, ExRF.

With respect Ian, the nature of your engagement with myself feels as contentious as the good old Revivalists that I left years ago- you seem to be convinced of your own theological knowledge as being somehow equated to being more correct. Having Theo qualifications is fine, but it doesn't take any of us nearer to God nor does it make us any more spiritual. There are also many different worldviews on doctrinal matters, faith and practice. Which is why theology remains a corporate rather than an individual practice, and why theologising requires the testing of foundational ideas. Thus far you've refused to engage with me in any sense, preferring instead to maintain: (1) that you're fully comfortable with what you believe; (2) that you believe yourself capable of rightly deciding between doctrinal truth and error; and (3) that the modern mystery religion of Freemasonry is compatible with biblical Christianity. Given what you've shared thus far, I've reservations with all three truth claims, hence my desire to engage in conversation with you.
You have your views I have mine, and you have essentially tried to impose yourself and your self-professed surety of knowledge upon me without invitation. I don't know you, and I find your approach condescending I'm afraid. Maybe it's a personality clash....I'm also ex ADF & don't like the approach you come across with.

"However, I'm not an undergraduate student who is just starting out; I've decades of experience grappling with the issues, researching and reflecting"

I've had decades of first hand experience  and Holy Spirit guidance grappling with the same issues, of researching and reflecting. FYI...I commenced my Theology undergrad in 2000 whilst in a Ministry role, and through life's circumstances took a job overseas so paused until 2 years ago. I am though, a lecturer in Management having done my Masters & HDR at conventional Universities also. And yet despite such heavenly guidance you belonged to what is clearly a heretical sect for about a decade, (Actually I left after a couple of years) and more recently you've aligned yourself with an independent charismatic faith community that potentially sits on the very fringe of Christian orthodoxy. (Your opinion) Then there was your rather unfortunate and mistaken attribution of the Roman Catholic Church as being, and I quote, "the largest pagan organisation on the planet". As an aside, I often ponder whether more is attributed to the Holy Spirit's guidance than is actually warranted by the facts. Regardless, all I've sought to do is engage you in theological discussion; it's healthy, it's biblical, and I'm convinced it would be of value for the both of us.
That you see the Catholic church as anything but an idolatrous religion, there's a big clue as to your 'authority' on scripture let alone wisdom & discernment.

"Despite this, I'd wager I'm very well informed about the history, rituals and beliefs of the Lodge. Probably much better than you are with respect to Christian theology ;)"

Unless you've actually been in a Lodge and witnessed ritual/ceremony/interpretive dance...whatever you like to refer to it as, then you're going on third party accounts. Having a father who was a Mason doth not make one an expert- my dad was an Engineer but I have little idea about construction. Hence the very fact of research. Point One: the history of Freemasonry is very well documented, as indeed, are its rituals and beliefs. Point Two, my father and I discussed the craft at length over many years. He too claimed as you have done about the compatibility of masonic practice and Christian belief, but then he was never a Christian. And his former opinion ended after I became a practising Christian and started asking questions he didn't wish asked. I'm convinced I can can demonstrate that Freemasonry and Christianity don't make good bedfellows, but I'm keen to hear why you believe they do. So you spoke to a solitary Mason who happened to be your Dad, and now you are an expert on it?

"If you're open to advice, I suggest you spend some time reviewing this site. Doing so will give you a greater appreciation of my positions and methods, and will no doubt better prepare you for subsequent engagements."

Wow, nothing says puffed up more than a statement like this. So you've made a bunch of posts and consider yourself more learned than the rest on this forum- yea I get it...you win, you reign supreme bud. Now, can you kindly allow me to speak freely on things I choose to without feeling the need to try and win the argument? Thanks in advance. I pointed you to my history on this site to provide context to my theological positions and hermeneutical methods. Next, I've sought to engage you charitably and courteously, and then despite your furtiveness and hostile dismissiveness. You've made claims I believe are open to being challenged through theological inquiry, which, as a soon-to-be-capped bachelor of theology, you should relish the opportunity of defending. 
Let's just agree to disagree amicably then, shall we? Wishing you all the best along your Christian journey
Blessings, and to you too.

Ian




05/12/2016 7:11 AM


Didaktikon
Re :   Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks

Hi, ExRF.

With respect Ian, the nature of your engagement with myself feels as contentious as the good old Revivalists that I left years ago- you seem to be convinced of your own theological knowledge as being somehow equated to being more correct. Having Theo qualifications is fine, but it doesn't take any of us nearer to God nor does it make us any more spiritual. There are also many different worldviews on doctrinal matters, faith and practice. Which is why theology remains a corporate rather than an individual practice, and why theologising requires the testing of foundational ideas. Thus far you've refused to engage with me in any sense, preferring instead to maintain: (1) that you're fully comfortable with what you believe; (2) that you believe yourself capable of rightly deciding between doctrinal truth and error; and (3) that the modern mystery religion of Freemasonry is compatible with biblical Christianity. Given what you've shared thus far, I've reservations with all three truth claims, hence my desire to engage in conversation with you.

"However, I'm not an undergraduate student who is just starting out; I've decades of experience grappling with the issues, researching and reflecting"

I've had decades of first hand experience  and Holy Spirit guidance grappling with the same issues, of researching and reflecting. FYI...I commenced my Theology undergrad in 2000 whilst in a Ministry role, and through life's circumstances took a job overseas so paused until 2 years ago. I am though, a lecturer in Management having done my Masters & HDR at conventional Universities also. And yet despite such heavenly guidance you belonged to what is clearly a heretical sect for about a decade, and more recently you've aligned yourself with an independent charismatic faith community that potentially sits on the very fringe of Christian orthodoxy. Then there was your rather unfortunate and mistaken attribution of the Roman Catholic Church as being, and I quote, "the largest pagan organisation on the planet". As an aside, I often ponder whether more is attributed to the Holy Spirit's guidance than is actually warranted by the facts. Regardless, all I've sought to do is engage you in theological discussion; it's healthy, it's biblical, and I'm convinced it would be of value for the both of us.

"Despite this, I'd wager I'm very well informed about the history, rituals and beliefs of the Lodge. Probably much better than you are with respect to Christian theology ;)"

Unless you've actually been in a Lodge and witnessed ritual/ceremony/interpretive dance...whatever you like to refer to it as, then you're going on third party accounts. Having a father who was a Mason doth not make one an expert- my dad was an Engineer but I have little idea about construction. Hence the very fact of research. Point One: the history of Freemasonry is very well documented, as indeed, are its rituals and beliefs. Point Two, my father and I discussed the craft at length over many years. He too claimed as you have done about the compatibility of masonic practice and Christian belief, but then he was never a Christian. And his former opinion ended after I became a practising Christian and started asking questions he didn't wish asked. I'm convinced I can can demonstrate that Freemasonry and Christianity don't make good bedfellows, but I'm keen to hear why you believe they do.

"If you're open to advice, I suggest you spend some time reviewing this site. Doing so will give you a greater appreciation of my positions and methods, and will no doubt better prepare you for subsequent engagements."

Wow, nothing says puffed up more than a statement like this. So you've made a bunch of posts and consider yourself more learned than the rest on this forum- yea I get it...you win, you reign supreme bud. Now, can you kindly allow me to speak freely on things I choose to without feeling the need to try and win the argument? Thanks in advance. I pointed you to my history on this site to provide context to my theological positions and hermeneutical methods. Next, I've sought to engage you charitably and courteously, and then despite your furtiveness and hostile dismissiveness. You've made claims I believe are open to being challenged through theological inquiry, which, as a soon-to-be-capped bachelor of theology, you should relish the opportunity of defending.

Blessings,

Ian


05/12/2016 1:43 AM

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