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Title: Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
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ExRFMason
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(Date Posted:23/11/2016 7:42 AM)
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Have been out for over 20 odd years and never been happier. I was kicked out 3 times for 'fraternising with girls', as you do as a young male surrounded by young ladies. I didn't have intercourse although there was some, as they put it,'touching under the clothing'. I made mistakes, gave in to temptation I admit, but the way those bastards treat people is horrendous. Almost all but 2 people out of the hundreds I knew that went in Adelaide are gone, either through escaping or being put 'out of fellowship.'
Thankfully God has restored my life, I'm happily married with children and almost through a Theology degree (Heaven forbid John Kuhlmann!). I don't feel anger or anything towards them really, just sorry at how delusional they are and the lives they've ruined. They are total control freaks who 'know not the way, so prevent others from entering' in my opinion. As for Daryl Williams, a perverted asshole who took delight in destroying many a young life through forced marriage. God will judge these bastards harshly, and I hope that the true believers are called out from this cult. I was in Adelaide between mid 80s to mid 90s. Hope everyone is doing great post Revival.
Oh, and I've become a freemason and whatever they told you about it being satanic/occult is pure bullshit. Like many secular groups, it encourages faith but doesn't dictate how you express it. Not once has my Christianity been challenged, but strengthened if anything.
 
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MothandRust
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Re:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:29/11/2016 3:52 AM)

 Freemasons? That sounds interesting. I literally know next to nothing about it. Is there a secret handshake... are there 'any' secrets, or is it all freely accessible to the public?

Even decades after leaving Revival, it still feels great doesn't it? There's a feeling of freedom outside of the sect that can't be explained after being controlled by ignoramouses for so long.
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Reply To MothandRust
(Date Posted:29/11/2016 6:21 AM)

Reply to MothandRust

 Freemasons? That sounds interesting. I literally know next to nothing about it. Is there a secret handshake... are there 'any' secrets, or is it all freely accessible to the public?
Even decades after leaving Revival, it still feels great doesn't it? There's a feeling of freedom outside of the sect that can't be explained after being controlled by ignoramouses for so long.

Hey Moth,
Thanks for replying. Freemasonry isn't at all secret- there are Lodges everywhere and many members openly wear rings, lapel pins etc. It is though, a group that likes to keep a few secrets. NOTHING to do with Illuminati, Global Control or any of the tinfoil hat theories, but things like the ceremonies, handshakes (yep, there are 'secret handshakes). It's actually quiet innocent and adds a bit of mystery.

It is a secular group which encourages one to pursue their faith. It was heavily Christian centred, but they allowed 'other' faiths to come in and basically promise to their god to become better people. That's all I will say about it apart from the Catholics of all high and mighty people condemn Masonry as some kind of occult group. Coming from them, it's almost an endorsement! NO witchcraft or weird stuff I'm afraid.

Yes, it is truly liberating to be free of the revival cult. They are the most controlling, manipulative, self righteous bunch of people I've ever encountered.
Sure some are true believers, but the 'oversight' have many things to answer for.

I wish all who have managed to leave and live normal, happy lives the very best & hope you seek God in truth.
Cheers, an excommunicated brother.
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Didaktikon
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:03/12/2016 6:51 PM)

Hi,

So you're almost through a theology degree, and you're a Freemason? You didn't make any mention of belonging to a Christian group post your departure from the RF, so would it be correct to describe your interest in theology as more secularist than Christian in orientation?

Blessings,

Ian
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ExRFMason
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:03/12/2016 8:47 PM)

Hi Ian,

I'm involved with a non-denominational Christian fellowship, and have been in some form for many years post RF.
The two (Masonry & Christianity) don't need to be mutually exclusive but rather are complimentary. Fellowship in a church sense will always be a means to know God better, and of course a way to learn amongst other believers. Freemasonry on the other hand, is a secular organisation that encourages,  a higher moral code. Much like parliament, Scouts, and MANY other organisations that have Judeo-Christian principles guiding them, so does Freemasonry. It doesn't at all attempt to replace individual faith. 

My Theology education isn't secular, but is absolutely a way to learn more about the historical & cultural contexts of the Bible ergo to better understand why we believe what we believe- rather than have uninformed 'authoritarians' TELL me what I should believe. Hope that makes sense.
Cheers, ExRF

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Didaktikon
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:03/12/2016 11:45 PM)

Hi ExRF,

I'm involved with a non-denominational Christian fellowship, and have been in some form for many years post RF. Non-denominational? If you don't mind me asking, what name does the group go by? Further, are they Pentecostal / Charismatic in nature?

The two (Masonry & Christianity) don't need to be mutually exclusive but rather are complimentary. I don't think Freemasonry and biblical Christianity can properly be described as complementary, at least, not from a Christian perspective. You may or may not be aware Freemasonry holds in common certain religious principles and traits formerly observed by the pagan Greco-Roman mystery cults. Consequently, I doubt (the apostle) Paul would look favourably on a person professing to being Christian engaging in the rites, rituals and fellowship practices of Freemasonry ;)

Fellowship in a church sense will always be a means to know God better, and of course a way to learn amongst other believers. Freemasonry on the other hand, is a secular organisation that encourages,  a higher moral code. Much like parliament, Scouts, and MANY other organisations that have Judeo-Christian principles guiding them, so does Freemasonry. It doesn't at all attempt to replace individual faith. I come from a long line of Masons, and I must respectfully disagree with just about every point you made.

My Theology education isn't secular, but is absolutely a way to learn more about the historical & cultural contexts of the Bible ergo to better understand why we believe what we believe- rather than have uninformed 'authoritarians' TELL me what I should believe. Hope that makes sense. It does, as such was the very reason I studied theology, myself. But Christian theology isn't simply descriptive, it's also prescriptive. As such, any trained theologian, whether secular or Christian, would rightly question your somewhat naive statements vis a vis the chummy relationship you believe can exist between Christianity and Freemasonry. In closing, might I ask which university or college are you currently studying with? And for what award?

Blessings,

Ian 

(Message edited by Didaktikon On 04/12/2016 3:49 AM)
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ExRFMason
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Reply To Didaktikon
(Date Posted:04/12/2016 4:56 AM)

Reply to Didaktikon

Hi ExRF,

I'm involved with a non-denominational Christian fellowship, and have been in some form for many years post RF. Non-denominational? If you don't mind me asking, what name does the group go by? Further, are they Pentecostal / Charismatic in nature?
I'm not going to 'out' myself by saying what the name is, but they are evangelical/charismatic.

The two (Masonry & Christianity) don't need to be mutually exclusive but rather are complimentary. I don't think Freemasonry and biblical Christianity can properly be described as complementary, at least, not from a Christian perspective. You may or may not be aware Freemasonry holds in common certain religious principles and traits formerly observed by the pagan Greco-Roman mystery cults. Consequently, I doubt (the apostle) Paul would look favourably on a person professing to being Christian engaging in the rites, rituals and fellowship practices of Freemasonry ;). 
The Catholic Church (the largest pagan organisation on the planet) made some exaggerated claims about Masonry- most being dark ages conjecture at best. What do you understand, or better yet, what have you witnessed personally as the 'rites, rituals and fellowship practices of Freemasonry?

Fellowship in a church sense will always be a means to know God better, and of course a way to learn amongst other believers. Freemasonry on the other hand, is a secular organisation that encourages,  a higher moral code. Much like parliament, Scouts, and MANY other organisations that have Judeo-Christian principles guiding them, so does Freemasonry. It doesn't at all attempt to replace individual faith. I come from a long line of Masons, and I must respectfully disagree with just about every point you made. So, are you or were you a Mason? 

My Theology education isn't secular, but is absolutely a way to learn more about the historical & cultural contexts of the Bible ergo to better understand why we believe what we believe- rather than have uninformed 'authoritarians' TELL me what I should believe. Hope that makes sense. It does, as such was the very reason I studied theology, myself. But Christian theology isn't simply descriptive, it's also prescriptive. As such, any trained theologian, whether secular or Christian, would rightly question your somewhat naive statements vis a vis the chummy relationship you believe can exist between Christianity and Freemasonry. In closing, might I ask which university or college are you currently studying with? And for what award? I'm not in here for any pissing match with another person, nor do I feel any need to justify my life choices. We'll clearly have to agree to disagree re: your rather condescending comments about my perceived naivete'. I'm doing a Bachelor of Theology- that's as much as I need to share.
Blessings back at you.

Blessings,

Ian 


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Didaktikon
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:04/12/2016 6:05 AM)

Hello again, ExRF.

I'm not going to 'out' myself by saying what the name is, but they are evangelical/charismatic. I'm unsure why naming the denomination you belong to would 'out' you any more than would the information you've already shared. However, as one theologian in conversation with another, I'm testing the possibility you've left the multiplied errors of hyper-Pentecostalism for the "softer" errors of the Charismatics. Such is the nature of theological inquiry ;)

...


The Catholic Church (the largest pagan organisation on the planet) made some exaggerated claims about Masonry- most being dark ages conjecture at best. What do you understand, or better yet, what have you witnessed personally as the 'rites, rituals and fellowship practices of Freemasonry? The Roman Catholic Church isn't a pagan organisation, but an ancient Christian one. That you maintain otherwise causes me to question the standards of the theological education you're currently receiving.

...

I'm not in here for any pissing match with another person, nor do I feel any need to justify my life choices. We'll clearly have to agree to disagree re: your rather condescending comments about my perceived naivete'. I'm doing a Bachelor of Theology- that's as much as I need to share. Well, such isn't a particularly charitable (nor Christian) attitude to adopt. And I haven't asked you to justify your "life choices", I've simply asked you to explain your position on some very simple issues. I asked about the institution you're studying with, as I've spent over twenty years studying and teaching theology at the tertiary level, and I'm curious about such things. Finally, as someone who is studying the "Queen of the sciences", surely you must understand that theologising involves the rigorous testing of one's established beliefs and ideas in order to arrive at the truth?

Blessings,

Ian
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Reply To Didaktikon
(Date Posted:04/12/2016 6:50 AM)

Reply to Didaktikon

Hello again, ExRF.
Hi again Didaktikon,


I'm not going to 'out' myself by saying what the name is, but they are evangelical/charismatic. I'm unsure why naming the denomination you belong to would 'out' you any more than would the information you've already shared. However, as one theologian in conversation with another, I'm testing the possibility you've left the multiplied errors of hyper-Pentecostalism for the "softer" errors of the Charismatics. Such is the nature of theological inquiry ;)
They don't fall under any ACC, or labelled 'denomination'. Let's just say that they are quite sound in key matters, although I don't think they have all the answers to some of the lesser matters.
...


The Catholic Church (the largest pagan organisation on the planet) made some exaggerated claims about Masonry- most being dark ages conjecture at best. What do you understand, or better yet, what have you witnessed personally as the 'rites, rituals and fellowship practices of Freemasonry? The Roman Catholic Church isn't a pagan organisation, but an ancient Christian one. That you maintain otherwise causes me to question the standards of the theological education you're currently receiving.
OK, that you consider Catholicism as Christian rather than pagan causes me to question your theological education. Who did you study through? Also, can you please answer my question re your direct connection to Freemasonry?
...

I'm not in here for any pissing match with another person, nor do I feel any need to justify my life choices. We'll clearly have to agree to disagree re: your rather condescending comments about my perceived naivete'. I'm doing a Bachelor of Theology- that's as much as I need to share. Well, such isn't a particularly charitable (nor Christian) attitude to adopt. And I haven't asked you to justify your "life choices", I've simply asked you to explain your position on some very simple issues. I asked about the institution you're studying with, as I've spent over twenty years studying and teaching theology at the tertiary level, and I'm curious about such things. Finally, as someone who is studying the "Queen of the sciences", surely you must understand that theologising involves the rigorous testing of one's established beliefs and ideas in order to arrive at the truth?
Where do you teach Theology? Your definition of theologising might be vastly different than mine, and I'm fine with my position on many biblical issues. I just think it's a good idea to understand as I said earlier, the historical and cultural contexts of the faith I choose. 

Blessings,

Ian


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Didaktikon
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:04/12/2016 7:27 AM)

Hello, ExRF.

They don't fall under any ACC, or labelled 'denomination'. Let's just say that they are quite sound in key matters, although I don't think they have all the answers to some of the lesser matters. No doubt. However, I prefer to decide the soundness or otherwise of such groups for myself, hence my interest in learning which 'brand' of charismatics you fellowship with. Sadly, it's been my experience the 'non-aligned' bodies tend towards being less-than-orthodox in several key areas, even more so than the otherwise 'aligned' ones.
...


OK, that you consider Catholicism as Christian rather than pagan causes me to question your theological education. Who did you study through? Also, can you please answer my question re your direct connection to Freemasonry?
My Bachelor of Theology (Hons) and Master of Theology degrees were earned at a Presbyterian theological college, and my Doctorate through a conventional research university. As for my position on Catholicism, it's based on a comprehensive understanding and appreciation of the communion's history, doctrine and practice. (I discovered long ago that facts provide a surer grounding for judgements than do fictions).

With respect to your question on my personal acquaintance with Freemasonry, my family have been Masons for several generations, and my father (a 22nd degree Mason at his death) was keen for me to follow the tradition. I declined. Despite this, I'd wager I'm very well informed about the history, rituals and beliefs of the Lodge. Probably much better than you are with respect to Christian theology ;) 

...

Where do you teach Theology? Tyndale College (www.tyndalecollege.org.au). Your definition of theologising might be vastly different than mine, and I'm fine with my position on many biblical issues. Doubtless our definitions and positions differ, and doubtless you're fine with your current understanding on a range of issues. However, I'm not an undergraduate student who is just starting out; I've decades of experience grappling with the issues, researching and reflecting. I just think it's a good idea to understand as I said earlier, the historical and cultural contexts of the faith I choose. So why the secrecy? Clearly you've imbibed the Freemasonry penchant for furtiveness, but theology remains a corporate rather than an individual undertaking, and theologising necessarily involves critically testing one's ideas in conversation with others. If you're open to advice, I suggest you spend some time reviewing this site. Doing so will give you a greater appreciation of my positions and methods, and will no doubt better prepare you for subsequent engagements.

Blessings,

Ian


(Message edited by Didaktikon On 04/12/2016 4:06 PM)
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ExRFMason
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:04/12/2016 5:49 PM)

With respect Ian, the nature of your engagement with myself feels as contentious as the good old Revivalists that I left years ago- you seem to be convinced of your own theological knowledge as being somehow equated to being more correct. Having Theo qualifications is fine, but it doesn't take any of us nearer to God nor does it make us any more spiritual. There are also many different worldviews on doctrinal matters, faith and practice.
"However, I'm not an undergraduate student who is just starting out; I've decades of experience grappling with the issues, researching and reflecting"

I've had decades of first hand experience  and Holy Spirit guidance grappling with the same issues, of researching and reflecting. FYI...I commenced my Theology undergrad in 2000 whilst in a Ministry role, and through life's circumstances took a job overseas so paused until 2 years ago. I am though, a lecturer in Management having done my Masters & HDR at conventional Universities also. 


"Despite this, I'd wager I'm very well informed about the history, rituals and beliefs of the Lodge. Probably much better than you are with respect to Christian theology ;)  "

Unless you've actually been in a Lodge and witnessed ritual/ceremony/interpretive dance...whatever you like to refer to it as, then you're going on third party accounts. Having a father who was a Mason doth not make one an expert- my dad was an Engineer but I have little idea about construction.

"If you're open to advice, I suggest you spend some time reviewing this site. Doing so will give you a greater appreciation of my positions and methods, and will no doubt better prepare you for subsequent engagements."

 Wow, nothing says puffed up more than a statement like this. So you've made a bunch of posts and consider yourself more learned than the rest on this forum- yea I get it...you win, you reign supreme bud. Now, can you kindly allow me to speak freely on things I choose to without feeling the need to try and win the argument? Thanks in advance.
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Didaktikon
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:05/12/2016 1:43 AM)

Hi, ExRF.

With respect Ian, the nature of your engagement with myself feels as contentious as the good old Revivalists that I left years ago- you seem to be convinced of your own theological knowledge as being somehow equated to being more correct. Having Theo qualifications is fine, but it doesn't take any of us nearer to God nor does it make us any more spiritual. There are also many different worldviews on doctrinal matters, faith and practice. Which is why theology remains a corporate rather than an individual practice, and why theologising requires the testing of foundational ideas. Thus far you've refused to engage with me in any sense, preferring instead to maintain: (1) that you're fully comfortable with what you believe; (2) that you believe yourself capable of rightly deciding between doctrinal truth and error; and (3) that the modern mystery religion of Freemasonry is compatible with biblical Christianity. Given what you've shared thus far, I've reservations with all three truth claims, hence my desire to engage in conversation with you.

"However, I'm not an undergraduate student who is just starting out; I've decades of experience grappling with the issues, researching and reflecting"

I've had decades of first hand experience  and Holy Spirit guidance grappling with the same issues, of researching and reflecting. FYI...I commenced my Theology undergrad in 2000 whilst in a Ministry role, and through life's circumstances took a job overseas so paused until 2 years ago. I am though, a lecturer in Management having done my Masters & HDR at conventional Universities also. And yet despite such heavenly guidance you belonged to what is clearly a heretical sect for about a decade, and more recently you've aligned yourself with an independent charismatic faith community that potentially sits on the very fringe of Christian orthodoxy. Then there was your rather unfortunate and mistaken attribution of the Roman Catholic Church as being, and I quote, "the largest pagan organisation on the planet". As an aside, I often ponder whether more is attributed to the Holy Spirit's guidance than is actually warranted by the facts. Regardless, all I've sought to do is engage you in theological discussion; it's healthy, it's biblical, and I'm convinced it would be of value for the both of us.

"Despite this, I'd wager I'm very well informed about the history, rituals and beliefs of the Lodge. Probably much better than you are with respect to Christian theology ;)"

Unless you've actually been in a Lodge and witnessed ritual/ceremony/interpretive dance...whatever you like to refer to it as, then you're going on third party accounts. Having a father who was a Mason doth not make one an expert- my dad was an Engineer but I have little idea about construction. Hence the very fact of research. Point One: the history of Freemasonry is very well documented, as indeed, are its rituals and beliefs. Point Two, my father and I discussed the craft at length over many years. He too claimed as you have done about the compatibility of masonic practice and Christian belief, but then he was never a Christian. And his former opinion ended after I became a practising Christian and started asking questions he didn't wish asked. I'm convinced I can can demonstrate that Freemasonry and Christianity don't make good bedfellows, but I'm keen to hear why you believe they do.

"If you're open to advice, I suggest you spend some time reviewing this site. Doing so will give you a greater appreciation of my positions and methods, and will no doubt better prepare you for subsequent engagements."

Wow, nothing says puffed up more than a statement like this. So you've made a bunch of posts and consider yourself more learned than the rest on this forum- yea I get it...you win, you reign supreme bud. Now, can you kindly allow me to speak freely on things I choose to without feeling the need to try and win the argument? Thanks in advance. I pointed you to my history on this site to provide context to my theological positions and hermeneutical methods. Next, I've sought to engage you charitably and courteously, and then despite your furtiveness and hostile dismissiveness. You've made claims I believe are open to being challenged through theological inquiry, which, as a soon-to-be-capped bachelor of theology, you should relish the opportunity of defending.

Blessings,

Ian
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ExRFMason
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Reply To Didaktikon
(Date Posted:05/12/2016 7:11 AM)

Reply to Didaktikon

Hi, ExRF.

With respect Ian, the nature of your engagement with myself feels as contentious as the good old Revivalists that I left years ago- you seem to be convinced of your own theological knowledge as being somehow equated to being more correct. Having Theo qualifications is fine, but it doesn't take any of us nearer to God nor does it make us any more spiritual. There are also many different worldviews on doctrinal matters, faith and practice. Which is why theology remains a corporate rather than an individual practice, and why theologising requires the testing of foundational ideas. Thus far you've refused to engage with me in any sense, preferring instead to maintain: (1) that you're fully comfortable with what you believe; (2) that you believe yourself capable of rightly deciding between doctrinal truth and error; and (3) that the modern mystery religion of Freemasonry is compatible with biblical Christianity. Given what you've shared thus far, I've reservations with all three truth claims, hence my desire to engage in conversation with you.
You have your views I have mine, and you have essentially tried to impose yourself and your self-professed surety of knowledge upon me without invitation. I don't know you, and I find your approach condescending I'm afraid. Maybe it's a personality clash....I'm also ex ADF & don't like the approach you come across with.

"However, I'm not an undergraduate student who is just starting out; I've decades of experience grappling with the issues, researching and reflecting"

I've had decades of first hand experience  and Holy Spirit guidance grappling with the same issues, of researching and reflecting. FYI...I commenced my Theology undergrad in 2000 whilst in a Ministry role, and through life's circumstances took a job overseas so paused until 2 years ago. I am though, a lecturer in Management having done my Masters & HDR at conventional Universities also. And yet despite such heavenly guidance you belonged to what is clearly a heretical sect for about a decade, (Actually I left after a couple of years) and more recently you've aligned yourself with an independent charismatic faith community that potentially sits on the very fringe of Christian orthodoxy. (Your opinion) Then there was your rather unfortunate and mistaken attribution of the Roman Catholic Church as being, and I quote, "the largest pagan organisation on the planet". As an aside, I often ponder whether more is attributed to the Holy Spirit's guidance than is actually warranted by the facts. Regardless, all I've sought to do is engage you in theological discussion; it's healthy, it's biblical, and I'm convinced it would be of value for the both of us.
That you see the Catholic church as anything but an idolatrous religion, there's a big clue as to your 'authority' on scripture let alone wisdom & discernment.

"Despite this, I'd wager I'm very well informed about the history, rituals and beliefs of the Lodge. Probably much better than you are with respect to Christian theology ;)"

Unless you've actually been in a Lodge and witnessed ritual/ceremony/interpretive dance...whatever you like to refer to it as, then you're going on third party accounts. Having a father who was a Mason doth not make one an expert- my dad was an Engineer but I have little idea about construction. Hence the very fact of research. Point One: the history of Freemasonry is very well documented, as indeed, are its rituals and beliefs. Point Two, my father and I discussed the craft at length over many years. He too claimed as you have done about the compatibility of masonic practice and Christian belief, but then he was never a Christian. And his former opinion ended after I became a practising Christian and started asking questions he didn't wish asked. I'm convinced I can can demonstrate that Freemasonry and Christianity don't make good bedfellows, but I'm keen to hear why you believe they do. So you spoke to a solitary Mason who happened to be your Dad, and now you are an expert on it?

"If you're open to advice, I suggest you spend some time reviewing this site. Doing so will give you a greater appreciation of my positions and methods, and will no doubt better prepare you for subsequent engagements."

Wow, nothing says puffed up more than a statement like this. So you've made a bunch of posts and consider yourself more learned than the rest on this forum- yea I get it...you win, you reign supreme bud. Now, can you kindly allow me to speak freely on things I choose to without feeling the need to try and win the argument? Thanks in advance. I pointed you to my history on this site to provide context to my theological positions and hermeneutical methods. Next, I've sought to engage you charitably and courteously, and then despite your furtiveness and hostile dismissiveness. You've made claims I believe are open to being challenged through theological inquiry, which, as a soon-to-be-capped bachelor of theology, you should relish the opportunity of defending. 
Let's just agree to disagree amicably then, shall we? Wishing you all the best along your Christian journey
Blessings, and to you too.

Ian


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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:05/12/2016 7:57 PM)

Good morning, ExRF.

You have your views I have mine, and you have essentially tried to impose yourself and your self-professed surety of knowledge upon me without invitation. I don't know you, and I find your approach condescending I'm afraid. Maybe it's a personality clash....I'm also ex ADF & don't like the approach you come across with. This is a discussion forum. Being such, you invited input the moment you posted. It's also reasonable to highlight you seemed happy enough interacting with others, including me, until I sought clarification on several of your stated points-of-view. You've passed judgement against others from the start, and then in less-than-flattering terms. Despite this, you would rail against me for politely asking you to justify a little of what you've written? That's inconsistent, don't you think? Lastly, I'm confident I've been nothing if not polite and respectful in my interactions with you.

And yet despite such heavenly guidance you belonged to what is clearly a heretical sect for about a decade, (Actually I left after a couple of years) and more recently you've aligned yourself with an independent charismatic faith community that potentially sits on the very fringe of Christian orthodoxy. (Your opinion) Then there was your rather unfortunate and mistaken attribution of the Roman Catholic Church as being, and I quote, "the largest pagan organisation on the planet". As an aside, I often ponder whether more is attributed to the Holy Spirit's guidance than is actually warranted by the facts. Regardless, all I've sought to do is engage you in theological discussion; it's healthy, it's biblical, and I'm convinced it would be of value for the both of us. That you see the Catholic church as anything but an idolatrous religion, there's a big clue as to your 'authority' on scripture let alone wisdom & discernment. In your first post you wrote, "
God will judge these bastards harshly, and I hope that the true believers are called out from this cult. I was in Adelaide between mid 80s to mid 90s. Hope everyone is doing great post Revival." The period just quoted encompasses about a decade, but now you claim your tenure was a scant couple of years? Next, I'm open to revising my opinion on the orthodoxy of your charismatic group, but you'll need to be more forthcoming in sharing information about them and their beliefs. Which, for reasons unknown, you aren't overly keen to do. Third, for someone who has almost completed a bachelor of theology degree, your position on the Roman Catholic Church is remarkably uninformed. Seriously, your opinion on such matters should be shaped more by facts than held-over Revivalist fictions and prejudice.

Hence the very fact of research. Point One: the history of Freemasonry is very well documented, as indeed, are its rituals and beliefs. Point Two, my father and I discussed the craft at length over many years. He too claimed as you have done about the compatibility of masonic practice and Christian belief, but then he was never a Christian. And his former opinion ended after I became a practising Christian and started asking questions he didn't wish asked. I'm convinced I can can demonstrate that Freemasonry and Christianity don't make good bedfellows, but I'm keen to hear why you believe they do. So you spoke to a solitary Mason who happened to be your Dad, and now you are an expert on it? You may recall my claim was to being "very well informed about the history, beliefs and rituals of the Lodge." I stand by this statement, and would encourage you to challenge it. At this point I'll content myself by stating you seem more offended by my disapproval of the Lodge than you are by my concerns about your choice of church.

I pointed you to my history on this site to provide context to my theological positions and hermeneutical methods. Next, I've sought to engage you charitably and courteously, and then despite your furtiveness and hostile dismissiveness. You've made claims I believe are open to being challenged through theological inquiry, which, as a soon-to-be-capped bachelor of theology, you should relish the opportunity of defending.Let's just agree to disagree amicably then, shall we? Wishing you all the best along your Christian journey. Revivalists have often told me I should agree to disagree, which is naught but a convenient ruse for avoiding getting at the truth. But I'm a trained theologian, and you claim to be one too. I believe you've made several truth-claims that warrant scrutiny, but the moment I press you to validate them, you shut down.
If I may appeal via proof-texting to 1 Peter 3:15, what gives?

Blessings,

Ian


(Message edited by Didaktikon On 06/12/2016 12:02 AM)
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ExRFMason
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:05/03/2017 8:18 AM)

So in brief, I decided I really couldn't be bothered with opinionated, self righteous arrogance and went about my journey with God after the last post I made here. 
I've never come across a more narcissistic display of 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' attitude outside of RCI/RF, and this is exactly why I left that movement after seeing some truths about their flawed logic. 
Respectfully Ian, you're much much the same- always wanting to 'win the argument' and prove how supreme your knowledge is. I suspect you have trouble listening to other points of view, constantly believing in you own importance above others. 
I Corinthians 8:1 dear boy!
Take a look in the mirror, realise that head knowledge means little to God, and perhaps try some humility rather than trolling around like you're some kind of Scripture Police. 






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Biblianut
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RE:Glad to be free of that cult of control freaks
(Date Posted:06/03/2017 2:44 AM)

Hi ExRFMason,

I’m not into trying to defend Ian for what you claim he is self-opinionated, self-righteous arrogance etc. (He is quite capable of defending himself thank you).

But what I do say, is everything that Ian has said and shown us in regarding the truth of scripture is not self-opinionated, but he has done much research and reading on the subject. He has the knowledge fortunate enough to pass onto us to know what the truth is.

I’ve done much follow up on the things that have been revealed here and have found the same conclusions from other sources outside of this forum.

So in brief, I decided I really couldn't be bothered with opinionated, self-righteous arrogance and went about my journey with God after the last post I made here.

I take it still includes your opinion on Masonry?

I've never come across a more narcissistic display of 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' attitude outside of RCI/RF, and this is exactly why I left that movement after seeing some truths about their flawed logic.

I’m sorry, but shouldn’t you be aware you are just being that yourself at the moment? 

Respectfully Ian, you're much the same- always wanting to 'win the argument' and prove how supreme your knowledge is. I suspect you have trouble listening to other points of view, constantly believing in your own importance above others. 

I don’t see it like that.

I Corinthians 8:1 dear boy!

That’s just one example what the Revivalist do, ‘take scripture out of context’.

Take a look in the mirror, realise that head knowledge means little to God, and perhaps try some humility rather than trolling around like you're some kind of Scripture Police. 

I think you ought to look in the mirror yourself, a little more knowledge can go a long way in knowing what is the will and truth that God reveals in his word.

Peace be with you

Ralph



(Message edited by Biblianut On 06/03/2017 6:43 PM)
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Didaktikon
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Reply To ExRFMason
(Date Posted:07/03/2017 1:33 AM)

Hello again, ExRF.

So in brief, I decided I really couldn't be bothered with opinionated, self righteous arrogance and went about my journey with God after the last post I made here. But yet here you are, attempting to justify why you wouldn't answer a few simple questions about some of the things you said, when politely asked to do so, on what is a discussion board.

I've never come across a more narcissistic display of 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' attitude outside of RCI/RF, and this is exactly why I left that movement after seeing some truths about their flawed logic. I wonder you ever survived Uni! The testing of assumptions and ideas is part-and-parcel of the process that is critical thinking. But to return to your more recent charge, perhaps you should spend some time reviewing our former engagements? I'm confident you'll discover I was open, polite, transparent and honest in sharing with you, while you were consistently evasive, judgmental, hostile and dismissive with me. So which of the two of us better demonstrated the RCI/RF's ethic of "I'm right, you're wrong"?

Respectfully Ian, you're much much the same- always wanting to 'win the argument' and prove how supreme your knowledge is. I suspect you have trouble listening to other points of view, constantly believing in you own importance above others. Actually, all I wanted to do was spend some time with you comparing and contrasting our respective positions on the compatibility or otherwise of Freemasonry with Christianity. 

I Corinthians 8:1 dear boy! Well, if we're going to engage in Revivalist proof-texting, and we really shouldn't, I'll see your 1 Corinthians 8:1 and raise you 2 Timothy 2:15; and 4:2-4!


Take a look in the mirror, realise that head knowledge means little to God, and perhaps try some humility rather than trolling around like you're some kind of Scripture Police.
Yes. Humility. I always find it ironic when Revivalists charge me with having naught but "head knowledge" because they're incapable of defending their positions from Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:16, springs to mind.

In closing it's good to have you back. I hope this time around you'll be a little more civil and obliging.

Blessings,

Ian



(Message edited by Didaktikon On 09/03/2017 8:39 PM)
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