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Forum for ex-members of Revival Churches
Title: These faithful souls all loved the Lord so why did they die horrible deaths??
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EmporersNewClothes
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Rank:Regular User

Posts:107
Registered:09/08/2005


(Date Posted:27/01/2006 11:12 PM)

Yep, i definitely wasnt saying its a bad idea - i think its good to remember people who have passed away, not pretend it didnt happen or something to be ashamed of. Just as L said, good to check that it wouldnt be inadvertently causing more hurt for those closely involved.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:27/01/2006 11:36 PM)

$%*'`[David]%*'`@

O.K. Lemons.  You check on the response of a family member (I only need one) and I will prepare a tribute/remembrance thread.

BTW can you help me out by re-typing the news paper articles?   Or is there another volunteer in Geelong who will do this for me?

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Aimoo Team
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(Date Posted:27/01/2006 11:54 PM)

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:28/01/2006 12:23 AM)




HOW DARE a simple man stand up on that platform and tell people they shouldnt have any contact with their family members that dont attend



I can't remember what or how he actually preaches not to have contact with family members but I think he actually uses scriptures and leaves the rest up to your interpretation and pressure from  fellow GRC'ers not to have contact with "backslider" family members, etc. Rember, Noel has always said that the GRC does not break up families! Gee. aren't it a wonderful cult...they can't see the truth because of the amount of lies that they barricade themselves within! 
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:28/01/2006 1:30 AM)

$%*'`[David]%*'`@

A woman from a NSW assembly told me how in recent years she was made to write a letter addressed to her parents, telling them that she will not see them, or have anything to do with them anymore.  The woman was also instructed by her then pastor to show him the letter prior to it being sent.  It was required of her to demonstrate to the pastor that she was not only being obedient to the ministry, but that she was also 'spelling out' the terms of her excommunication toward her family.  The letter was sent. 

Just more proof that the loyal GRC'ers are a pack of liars.

I have deliberately refrained from giving anymore detail.  I hope this woman will share her own testimonial with all of us in the near future.  She does visit this forum occassionally.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:28/01/2006 2:11 AM)

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom

Reply to : AnonymousReply to : lemonsinthestoreroomReply to : AnonymousThis is a fair warning!EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD AND BELIEVE THAT HE IS GOING TO HEAL YOU. YOU STILL HAVE TO GO TO THE DOCTOR FOR YOUR CHECK-UPS AND WHEN YOU DON'T FEEL AS IF ALL IS GOING WELL WITH YOUR BODY FOR TWO REASONS.One: You need to find out what is wrong for you in order to ask for others to pray for you and for god to heal you. For some reason god needs you to know that you know that you are ill before he will heal you.Two: When you do not get healed you need to know how the world of medicine is going to try to heal you.And if god and the doctors do not heal you at least you can not blame yourself for not trying. But you can blame god not not healing you.well hello..I'm as confused as hell over that post..you need to know what is the matt
there are many ways of being simple. You have picked one and are sticking with it .Good for you
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Aimoo Team
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(Date Posted:28/01/2006 2:16 AM)

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:28/01/2006 2:59 AM)

Reply to : David [Anonymous]



A woman froma NSW assembly told me how in recent years she was made to write a letter addressed to her parents, telling them that she will not see them, orhaveanything to do with them anymore. The woman was also instructed by her then pastor to show him the letter prior to it being sent. It was required of her to demonstrate to the pastor that she was not only being obedient to the ministry, but that she was also'spelling out' the terms of her excommunication toward her family. The letter was sent.Just more proof that the loyal GRC'ers are a pack of liars.I have deliberately refrained from giving anymore detail. I hope this woman will share her own testimonial with all of us in the near future. She does visit this forum occassionally.




This place is the family and friend breaker make no mistake about it,the intent is to make the GRC and affiliates exclusive to all others,we are the only ones,only ones to what is open to a lot of avenues,self righteous bigots,without vision of what the jesus of the bible wanted and how he conducted himself,without love,no empathy,and above all no sign and wonders of his omnipotent power. Nevertheless it is a very clever strategy,if they cut off all your friends and family they are halfway in achieving what they have set out to do. Because when push comes to shove ,whom and where are you going to go to? you have no one for support , no other structure . It happened to me , but over time you will be suprised to find that you will have friends ,because people tend to gravitate to whom they feel something for,whether it be on a social scale,sporting interest, hobby, work related,you name it. Like in any surrounding ,especially the GRC and its affilliates you need to have your wits about you ,because eveybody, and i mean everybody has an agenda. In conclusion i must say , the friends i have are always there for me, i can have a private discussion and i know it will stay that way,I bet you tell someone in confidence about a personal matter in that pastor-woeshipping cult ,it will be passed on to others,i think the bible calls it gossip,anyway let go of that negative thought implanted by the hierachy that you have no one else, you do and you will. The GRC needs insecure people to make those dictacting to you feel some sort of satisfaction,gratification, In essence total POWER over another human being.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:28/01/2006 3:01 AM)

Reply to : David [Anonymous]



A woman froma NSW assembly told me how in recent years she was made to write a letter addressed to her parents, telling them that she will not see them, orhaveanything to do with them anymore. The woman was also instructed by her then pastor to show him the letter prior to it being sent. It was required of her to demonstrate to the pastor that she was not only being obedient to the ministry, but that she was also'spelling out' the terms of her excommunication toward her family. The letter was sent.Just more proof that the loyal GRC'ers are a pack of liars.I have deliberately refrained from giving anymore detail. I hope this woman will share her own testimonial with all of us in the near future. She does visit this forum occassionally.




This place is the family and friend breaker make no mistake about it,the intent is to make the GRC and affiliates exclusive to all others,we are the only ones,only ones to what is open to a lot of avenues,self righteous bigots,without vision of what the jesus of the bible wanted and how he conducted himself,without love,no empathy,and above all no sign and wonders of his omnipotent power. Nevertheless it is a very clever strategy,if they cut off all your friends and family they are halfway in achieving what they have set out to do. Because when push comes to shove ,whom and where are you going to go to? you have no one for support , no other structure . It happened to me , but over time you will be suprised to find that you will have friends ,because people tend to gravitate to whom they feel something for,whether it be on a social scale,sporting interest, hobby, work related,you name it. Like in any surrounding ,especially the GRC and its affilliates you need to have your wits about you ,because eveybody, and i mean everybody has an agenda. In conclusion i must say , the friends i have are always there for me, i can have a private discussion and i know it will stay that way,I bet you tell someone in confidence about a personal matter in that pastor-woeshipping cult ,it will be passed on to others,i think the bible calls it gossip,anyway let go of that negative thought implanted by the hierachy that you have no one else, you do and you will. The GRC needs insecure people to make those dictacting to you feel some sort of satisfaction,gratification, In essence total POWER over another human being.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:29/01/2006 6:07 AM)

$%*'`[bokbok]%*'`@Can I ask which Jean Walker this was?
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:29/01/2006 9:19 AM)

Reply to : bokbok [Anonymous]



Can I ask which Jean Walker this was?




take a guess.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:29/01/2006 11:04 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

A woman froma NSW assembly told me how in recent years she was made to write a letter addressed to her parents, telling them that she will not see them, orhaveanything to do with them anymore. The woman was also instructed by her then pastor to show him the letter prior to it being sent. It was required of her to demonstrate to the pastor that she was not only being obedient to the ministry, but that she was also'spelling out' the terms of her excommunication toward her family. The letter was sent.Just more proof that the loyal GRC'ers are a pack of liars.I have deliberately refrained from giving anymore detail. I hope this woman will share her own testimonial with all of us in the near future. She does visit this forum occassionally.
Could whoever posted this entry, could you put this post in the Today Tonight topic, as this is exactly the sort of stuff i want them to read about, and hopefully act upon.
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motmot
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Posts:570
From: Australia
Registered:22/07/2005


(Date Posted:29/01/2006 1:18 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

HOW DARE a simple man stand up on that platform and tell people they shouldnt have any contact with their family members that dont attendI can't remember what or how he actually preaches not to have contact with family members but I think he actually uses scriptures and leaves the rest up to your interpretation and pressure from fellow GRC'ers not to have contact with "backslider" family members, etc. Rember, Noel has always said that the GRCdoes not break up families! Gee. aren't it a wonderful cult...they can't see the truth because of the amount of lies that they barricade themselves within!

 I definitely and explicitly remember  Noel Hollins say from the platform,,,,,,,,,,, "  that if your children are put out of fellowship that you / we should also put them out of the home as well ! In doing this it will teach them how hard life   '  outside  '  could be " .   Every time I think of this, I remember David Blackney and all that he had to endure. Such nice people / family yet so greatly influenced by GRC doctrine.It also reminds me of Daryl Gee's oldest boy who was out except the Gee's maintained contact only I don't beleive Noel found out. So it must have been around that same time frame....early 1980's  ?

 YES.... Noel did  preach it and no doubt still believes it even if he doesn't say it .We know the end result.

There's no condemnation in Christ........but god help you if you don't obey him (NNH)

    always tell the truth

                  motmot

 

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--------------------------------------------------------------
" Those are my principles and if you don"t like them, I do have others"

Come-On !

always tell the truth
motmot

Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:29/01/2006 2:44 PM)

$%*'`[bokbok]%*'`@Reply to : Anonymous

take a guess.
Not the child, Jean?
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Warrick 007
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Registered:21/08/2005


(Date Posted:29/01/2006 3:07 PM)

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom


As i can see and feel this topic is a touchy one, and i hope what i say, will not offened anyone,and the last thing i wont is to sound like chartdoctor! But Sadly, what pastar N.H says about seeing a doctor, and getting treament for illness does not come from Gods word, and it is this Huge error, that has been the cause of much pain and heartake. I know what its like to have loved one die, i'v had 2 family members from the GRC die of the sickness lemmons named, and my step father has only 6-12 months to live, but he is not a christain.

Just like to quote a line the lemmons said " all these souls loved the lord"

And yes, that is all that matters.They loved the lord to the end, There race has been won, but i will not judge my God and point the finger at him, but the finger should be pointed at the men behind such church doctrins and abusive church practice's, that have a twisted veiw of healing, that just brings so much hurt and pain to the live's of family members. Remember T.A getting up the front every bloody time he came to Geelong ranting on, and on, and saying "In all my years of being saved, i'v never been to the DOCTORS once" remember that one? Makes my sick the thought of it! Its this sickening metalaty that the grc has, on healing and doctors, that i beleive is the root cause.


Suffering is a universal part of our humanity that exists in a fallen world. The question as to why there is suffering in death for some and not as much for others is really not answerable in full as long as we inhabit this vale of tears. For we reckon things from our human experience and do not understand the infinite mind and eternatiy and purpose of God. In the great faith chapter we often read of the heroes of the faith but neglect the litany of those unnamed who suffered for their faith (Hebrews 11:33-40). These all died suffering deaths and yet are heroes of the faith. They are unnamed and unsung among men but God values their suffering and includes them in this great chapter of faith as a lesson to us.

We all know we live in a fallen world Suffering and death is part of the curse of sin on the world and we find that curse in Genesis (Genesis 3:16-19). Adam and Eve fell and when they did, they brought to themselves and to all of their decedents, the suffering of death. "17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:17 King James Version). We know that Adam and Eve did not die physically on the day that they ate of the tree. Adam lived to the age of 930 (Genesis 5:5). The statement "thou shalt surely die" would better be translated "dying thou shall die." When Adam sinned he was spiritually separated from God and this is the first "dying." For death is separation. When Adam then died physically his spirit was separated from his body and this is the second "die." Because of this, all mankind born since Adam has these two deaths. We are born spiritually separated from God and unless that is remedied through the new birth in Christ, we will remain separated and when we die physically our spirit will be lost and apart from God. For Adam and all those born before the sacrifice of Christ, an animal sacrifice was made and God provided that first sacrifice for Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). Now, we accept the sacrifice of the "Lamb that takes away the sins of the world" (John 1:19) and there is no need for us to fear eternal separation from God.

The question of why some suffer at death and others do not could be summed up in one statement, "God is sovereign." That is not just a trite and easy statement. When Jesus healed a man born blind the disciples questioned Him. "1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him" (John 9:1-3 King James Version). There is in this passage a principle that can be applied to our question. God allows some to suffer so that "His works should be made manifest." In other words, God allows some to suffer to bring glory to His name and others not to suffer for the same reason and it is His sovereign Will that determines. Therefore, we can safely say that no suffering is with out a purpose in the plan of God even though we as finite humans cannot see that purpose clearly now.

The Apostle Paul suffered much in his life and ministry and a litany of that suffering can be found in 2 Corinthians 11:23-27. The Apostle Paul was killed for his testimony and according to universal tradition was decapitated after a long imprisonment. However, during this time the Apostle Paul wrote this testimony to Timothy, "7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing" (2 Timothy 4:7-8 King James Version). Here is exhibited another purpose for suffering and that is to be a witness to those watching that God's grace and strength is sufficient to enable a believer to stand in that suffering (2 Corinthians 12:9).
The Apostle Paul also gives us an example as to how we should view suffering as a child of God. "9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong" (2 Corinthians 12:9-10 King James Version) And the Apostle also said, "For me to live is Christ, to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21). Therefore, how a believer dies, in suffering or in relative peace, it is but a transition to "face to face" with the LORD and once that transition has been made, all of the sorrow and pain of that suffering will end. "4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away"

This is my hope and comfort for myself to understand such things, i know its not for every one. Even to think i can still in some way follow the Lord has been a big abstiacl to me, because of the guilt and shame instilled by the GRC, saying that there the "one true church in all the world" i know it sounds crazy, but when your in it for so many years, you really beging to beleive it.

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--------------------------------------------------------------
A man died and went to heaven. He was met by Jesus and Jesus began to show him around. As they walked they saw some amazing things. Some too beautiful and amazing to describe. Eventually they came to a huge wall and the man heard the sound of music, laughing and what basically sounded like a party coming from behind the wall. Curious, the man asked Jesus what was going on behind the wall.
Jesus answered, "Shhhh!!! Not too loud. That"s the GRC. They think they"re the only ones here!!!"

Aimoo Team
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(Date Posted:30/01/2006 12:32 AM)

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:30/01/2006 12:37 AM)

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom



Reply to : Wazza blind but now i seeReply to : lemonsinthestoreroomAs i can see and feel this topic is a touchy one, and i hope what i say, will not offened anyone,and the last thing i wont is to sound like chartdoctor! But Sadly, what pastar N.H says about seeing a doctor, and getting treament for illness does not come from Gods word, and it is this Huge error, that has been the cause of much pain and heartake. I know what its like to have loved one die, i'v had 2 family members from the GRC die of the sickness lemmons named, and my step father has only 6-12 months to live, but he is not a christain.Just like to quote a line the lemmons said " all these souls loved the lord"And yes, that is all that matters.They loved the lord to the end, There race has been won, but i will not judge my God and point the finger at him, bu




They are worse than catholic priests , because catho,s don,t proclaim healing,therefore not hypocritical in that regard.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:30/01/2006 2:12 AM)

$%*'`[bokbok]%*'`@Reply to : Anonymous

take a guess.
Can anyone tell me please which Jean Walker passed away?
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:30/01/2006 4:16 AM)

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom

Reply to : Wazza blind but now i seeReply to : lemonsinthestoreroomAs i can see and feel this topic is a touchy one, and i hope what i say, will not offened anyone,and the last thing i wont is to sound like chartdoctor! But Sadly, what pastar N.H says about seeing a doctor, and getting treament for illness does not come from Gods word, and it is this Huge error, that has been the cause of much pain and heartake. I know what its like to have loved one die, i'v had 2 family members from the GRC die of the sickness lemmons named, and my step father has only 6-12 months to live, but he is not a christain.Just like to quote a line the lemmons said " all these souls loved the lord"And yes, that is all that matters.They loved the lord to the end, There race has been won, but i will not judge my God and point the finger at him, bu

suppose I will have to wait until the day(if and when) I face God..and only then will I get the answer I need to hear.

 

I will add "IF"  you face god

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Aimoo Team
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(Date Posted:30/01/2006 7:23 AM)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:30/01/2006 7:30 AM)

$%*'`[Mick]%*'`@Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom



Reply to : AnonymousReply to : lemonsinthestoreroomReply to : Wazza blind but now i seeReply to : lemonsinthestoreroomAs i can see and feel this topic is a touchy one, and i hope what i say, will not offened anyone,and the last thing i wont is to sound like chartdoctor! But Sadly, what pastar N.H says about seeing a doctor, and getting treament for illness does not come from Gods word, and it is this Huge error, that has been the cause of much pain and heartake. I know what its like to have loved one die, i'v had 2 family members from the GRC die of the sickness lemmons named, and my step father has only 6-12 months to live, but he is not a christain.Just like to quote a line the lemmons said " all these souls loved the lord"And yes, that is all that matters.They loved the lord to the end, There race has been won, but i wi



Don,t worry about them lemons, the fact is that they come in here should be satisfying for all of us who no longer dwell under a regime , that is similar to the nazi party. They churn so much at the fact that you and many here have the strength to flee the prison that they actually envy those who no longer go. It,s just venting their spleen, laugh at them , i do.
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Aimoo Team
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(Date Posted:30/01/2006 7:40 AM)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Warrick 007
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Posts:0
Registered:21/08/2005


(Date Posted:30/01/2006 7:56 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

"i will add IF u face God"

i will ask you something. Do u surrport N.Hollins 100%?? Do u obey his every comment like your wearing a blind fold? Are u aware that you a 90% ignorant of 90% of the bible and only really know the doctrine of N.hollins? Are u aware of all the different doctrine's the GRC has that are just totally false doctrins that control and ruin lifes? Are u aware that 90% of the group has no real joy or happyness in there life's and only go out of fear of losing family and freinds and then going to Hell? Are u aware the 95% of the people there are to embarreassed and ashamed to wittness and talk about the group to work mates and freinds?

So if you surrport NH 100%, does that make you just as guilty as him?

So and if "u" face God one day and are standing next to Noal while he is being juded for the hell and distruction this one man has caused, i hope u get a good look of his face as God brings all the history up, For God tells us that he will judge pastars much more harder.
Open your eyes mate!
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--------------------------------------------------------------
A man died and went to heaven. He was met by Jesus and Jesus began to show him around. As they walked they saw some amazing things. Some too beautiful and amazing to describe. Eventually they came to a huge wall and the man heard the sound of music, laughing and what basically sounded like a party coming from behind the wall. Curious, the man asked Jesus what was going on behind the wall.
Jesus answered, "Shhhh!!! Not too loud. That"s the GRC. They think they"re the only ones here!!!"

Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 7:55 AM)

$%*'`[bokbok]%*'`@Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom

Heather Meade,Jim Sweeney,Jean Walker,Dianne Dunn,Frank Pullen,Peggy Batson, Eunice Hollins,Margarite Stretton,Pastor john Buckle,Pastor Robin Lowden,Justin Van Laar..and there are many more in other assemblies..why did they die the way they did? can any one explain?These people all followed the Lord and they died before their time.Their death devastated their families and I dont care how many times I was told 'oh well she's made it to the kingdom' it never helped,in fact it made it worse..unless you have been through a situation like cancer you have no idea.My mother would still be alive today if she had followed her medical instinct and had medical treatment,she had all the opportunities,she was working for a specialist at the time and she was booked in the next day for radical surgery..but no..she went straight to NHH and told him and he en
Sorry to bother you Lemons, but you mentioned "Jean Walker" in the above... I haven't gone for a couple of years now, just wondering which Jean Walker it was who passed away?
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 8:28 AM)

Jean Walker passed away quite a number of years ago.  She had quite a number of boys.  Remember Jim Walker married to Chris?  His mother.  There was Graham Walker and a whole heap of other walkers too.  But she was there mother.  A Scottish woman.
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The Prophet
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Posts:21
Registered:08/04/2003


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 10:12 AM)

Reply to : HolyandSinful



Reply to : AnonymousI would spell it out for you but why? If you are so simple to not understand what I posted in the first place you sure in hell will not understand it when I waste my time goion over each and every line. Have someone else explain it to you.Is that'the Prophet', or is there someone else who loves to find the opportunity to call otherssimple?"This is a fair warning!" - Yeah... your post seems pretty nutty. Have you read it again since posting it?





No it was not the Prophet.....but thanks for thinking of me

Healing seems to be easily read and not so easily understood by pastors.
Why or why not ..some people are healed some are not.
There is probably a Scriptural reason ,but comfort and compassion for the families involved would be step one in the love your brother commandment.
I have been following the work of David Hogan in Mexico he and his Aztec Indian church have raised the dead for many years 500 plus todate believe it or not.
Some (most) TV evangelists "claim" healings without much proof.
I personally have seen some amazing healings with the Aboriginal people.
So God does heal.
However I know very few who have the key ,that works all the time.
Its a promise from Scripture but we are human and we are not perfect. I
think it is our faith in God that heals but it is not for men to condemn
or sprout off unless they themselves have the Gift of healing and the results of their work are seen as testimony to others.

We live in a fallen world bad stuff happens to good and bad alike.
We can hope but not condemn those that don,t get a result.
It is foolish not to use modern medicine if you have not had regular healings in your life. If your faith is strong you can trust in God alone to heal you, if not go to your doctor.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 10:30 AM)

Reply to the Prophet:

what amazing healings have you personally seen within the Aboriginal community?

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Aimoo Team
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(Date Posted:31/01/2006 11:00 AM)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 11:13 AM)

$%*'`[bokbok]%*'`@Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom

Reply to : bokbok [Anonymous]Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroomHeather Meade,Jim Sweeney,Jean Walker,Dianne Dunn,Frank Pullen,Peggy Batson, Eunice Hollins,Margarite Stretton,Pastor john Buckle,Pastor Robin Lowden,Justin Van Laar..and there are many more in other assemblies..why did they die the way they did? can any one explain?These people all followed the Lord and they died before their time.Their death devastated their families and I dont care how many times I was told 'oh well she's made it to the kingdom' it never helped,in fact it made it worse..unless you have been through a situation like cancer you have no idea.My mother would still be alive today if she had followed her medical instinct and had medical treatment,she had all the opportunities,she was working for a specialist at the time and she was booked in the next
Hi Lemons, thank you very much for the information, (I was thinking of Jean Blackney, I thought her name was Walker for some reason, silly me)..  It is so sad, I do remember her, she was a lovely woman.  Once a life is gone, it's so FINAL and so so sad.
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EmporersNewClothes
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Posts:107
Registered:09/08/2005


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 11:56 AM)

I wonder what the legal situation is around people who die from treatable diseases, including cancer, after being encouraged by a pastor or religious organisation such as the GRC, NOT to seek medical treatment?

Some interesting stories here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/medical1.htm

Including:

In 1993, Douglass Lundman sued his ex-wife and various Christian Science groups due over the death of his 11 year old son in 1989. He had juvenile diabetes - a potentially fatal disorder which is routinely treated with insulin, diet and exercise. While under the care of his Christian Science mother, he had fallen into a diabetic coma and died. The jury found that the mother, Kathleen McKown, her new husband, the Christian Science practitioner, the Christian Science nursing home that provided his nurse, the local representative of the Committee on Publication and the Church itself shared responsibility for the death. Lundman was awarded compensatory damages of over 5 million dollars; the Church was assessed an additional 9 million in punitive damages. The former were reduced to 1.5 million on appeal, but the church's punitive damages were not lowered. The case was appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. By refusing to review the case, the court let the judgment stand.

Anyone know what the situation is in Australia? If someone is encouraged or pressured into refusing available treatment and dies as a result, or even dies sooner as a result - surely that is approaching manslaughter?
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MothandRust
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Rank:Forum Oracle

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From: Australia
Registered:27/02/2004


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 2:15 PM)

Reply to : The Prophet

 

"Why or why not ..some people are healed some are not. There is probably a Scriptural reason "

Yeah probably... I'm sure it'll come to you. Let us know when it does.

 "If your faith is strong you can trust in God alone to heal you, if not go to your doctor. "

Shouldn't you really go to a doctor whether your faith is strong or not? I mean... really. Go to a doctor. Don't bother blowing into the faith detector bag first to check on how strong it is. Go check it with a doc eh... you can pray all the way there and back. Cover your bases. Jesus said sick people need physicians. Ok... go to the bloody doctor whether your faith is strong or not.

Matthew 9:12
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 4:15 PM)

Reply to : The Prophet

No it was not the Prophet.....but thanks for thinking of meHealing seems to be easily read and not so easily understood by pastors.Why or why not ..some people are healed some are not.There is probably a Scriptural reason ,but comfort and compassion for the fa
These natives are the same people who use to die when another member pointed a bone at them right?
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 4:22 PM)

Reply to : HolyandSinful

Reply to : The Prophet"Why or why not ..some people are healed some are not. There is probably a Scriptural reason"Yeah probably... I'm sure it'll come to you. Let us know when it does."If your faith is strong you can trust in God alone to heal you, if not go to your doctor."Shouldn't you really go to a doctor whether your faith is strong or not? I mean... really. Go to a doctor. Don't bother blowing into the faith detector bag first to check on how strong it is. Go check it with a doc eh... you can pray all the way there and back. Cover your bases. Jesus said sick people need physicians. Ok... go to the bloody doctor whether your faith is strong or n
As I said before "GO SEE A FING DOCTOR!"  I don't care if you want god to heal you or expect god to heal you or hope that god will heal you don't be a moron and only wait upon the lord, "GO SEE A FING DOCTOR YOU ARE SICKER THAN YOU THINK!" 
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MothandRust
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Rank:Forum Oracle

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From: Australia
Registered:27/02/2004


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 5:09 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : HolyandSinfulReply to : The Prophet"Why or why not ..some people are healed some are not. There is probably a Scriptural reason"Yeah probably... I'm sure it'll come to you. Let us know when it does."If your faith is strong you can trust in God alone to heal you, if not go to your doctor."Shouldn't you really go to a doctor whether your faith is strong or not? I mean... really. Go to a doctor. Don't bother blowing into the faith detector bag first to check on how strong it is. Go check it with a doc eh... you can pray all the way there and back. Cover your bases. Jesus said sick people need physicians. Ok... go to the bloody doctor whether your faith is strong or nAs I said before "GO SEE A FING DOCTOR!" I don't care if youwant god to heal you or expec

That was a good scripture though eh?

Go see a fing doctor? is that like a ding doctor... lol

Ok, thanks, good advice... I think I've read it somewhere else before. later!

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:31/01/2006 11:48 PM)

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom

people can malign me and tell lies(brendan S for one)..

So what is the story with Brendan S?  Does he have something on Hollins, that gives him a get out of jail free card?  As it seems he has been exposed in here from things he has written in his (if they are his) posts. My questions are?

1/ Is Brendan still in fellowship and attending the meetings? (fellowship, what a joke that term is for GRC socialising)

2/ Why has he not been disciplined by Hollins for disobeying his direct orders NOT to view or post to this forum?

3/ (Question to Hollins) What dirt does he have on you Hollins?

4/ (Question to Hollins) How are you sleeping these days? 

5/ (Question to the general assembly of the GRC) What do you think about that, when so many of you have had family members tossed out    (sometimes forcibly) over very trivial matters, matters as simple as asking direct questions to Hollins, questions he does not want to address, such as your manipulation of the company structure of the GRC, which i believe was done, not in accordance with the LAW, and to what end?  So that Hollins has ALL the assets in his name only now. 

6/ (Question to the general assembly of the GRC) What do you think now, knowing that ALL the "Tithes & Offerings" you have put into those nice little bags over all those years, is now most definately in Hollin's pocket.

6/ Who is the account for the GRC Pty Ltd?  Is it Paul Madden? 

7/ If it is... (Question to Paul Madden) Did you organise the changing of the GRC structure, with the full knowledge that ALL assets would go from a TRUST set up to being solely owned by Hollins, and were the trustees and signitaries aware of what went on? 

8/ (Question to Paul Madden, only if it was him that arranged this) Did you inform the trustees & signitaries (Elders) as i understand there were several other signitaries in the days when the GRC was a Trust with a "Board of Directors"

9/ (Question to the general assembly of the GRC) How long will you people sit there with your head in the sand and watch as this "Meglomaniac" takes everything from you, and in the process makes your life misery?

10/ (Question to Hollins) Did Addison wise up to your "Corporate Takeover" and is that why he is in the "Cheap Seats" now.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 12:36 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroompeople can malign me and tell lies(brendan S for one)..So what is the story with Brendan S? Does he have something on Hollins, that gives him a get out of jail free card? As it seems he has been exposed in here from things he has written in his (if they are his) posts.My questions are?1/ Is Brendan still in fellowship and attending the meetings? (fellowship, what a joke that term is for GRC socialising)2/ Why has he not been disciplined by Hollins for disobeying his direct orders NOT to view or post to this forum?3/ (Question to Hollins) What dirt does he have on you Hollins?4/ (Question to Hollins)How are you sleeping these days?5/ (Question to the general assembly
I don't think BS would have anything on NH.  I also think he's still in the place because he either talks his way around things or stuff hasn't got back to NH, especially the stuff about him posting on this forum.  If someone rang up NH, as is claimed, and dobbed BS in, I doubt NH would take it seriously.  Do you have any idea of how many prank phone calls he gets?  I think he'd switch off, esp if the person wouldn't give their name.  From what I rememeber of BS he was a stupid kid with an anger problem.  Doesn't look like he's changed much.  I feel for his poor wife.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 12:48 AM)

$%*'`[wholelottaRosie]%*'`@Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : AnonymousReply to : lemonsinthestoreroompeople can malign me and tell lies(brendan S for one)..So what is the story with Brendan S? Does he have something on Hollins, that gives him a get out of jail free card? As it seems he has been exposed in here from things he has written in his (if they are his) posts.My questions are?1/ Is Brendan still in fellowship and attending the meetings? (fellowship, what a joke that term is for GRC socialising)2/ Why has he not been disciplined by Hollins for disobeying his direct orders NOT to view or post to this forum?3/ (Question to Hollins) What dirt does he have on you Hollins?4/ (Question to Hollins)How are you sleeping these days?5/ (Question to the general assemblyI don't think BS would have anything on NH. I also th

People have been informed in the GRC of him coming on here and the trash he's written,one in particular was furious at his slander,but they cant do much without proof and that is really difficult as you would all be aware.

I doubt he has any dirt on Noel. B can lie and talk his way out of ANYTHING,I know that any of the GRCers that have had much to do with him always get burnt and then they are gossiped about by he and his wife.

The guy is a walking,talking anger management case waiting to happen..I was told he cracked it at the xmas camp  this year and went home early...I heard him doing  a 'donut'  outside in the carpark of the GRC about 3 years ago..he sprayed gravel over all the nearby cars  because someone DARED to 'rebuke' him over something! this was all while the communion meeting was going on..I could go on all day with his little dramas but who could be bothered.

His time will come,I'm sure of that.

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Aimoo Team
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(Date Posted:01/02/2006 12:51 AM)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 4:59 AM)

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom

I doubt NHH would put it in his hands..he likes to keep everything seperate..as in no 'in house' jobs especially where the finances are concerned..

11/ (Question to Hollins) Did you get the "approval" of the "Board of Directors" (Elders) (and their signitures, which no doubt would have been a requirement) to change the structure of the GRC from a trust to a (one share) shelf company in your name?  Or did you obtain ALL the assets of the GRC by deception. And if so, why has the Law not been called in to address this very serious matter, serious in the sense that Hollins now owns assets (all ex and current members monies went to buy all these properties remember) valued in excess of $12,000.000

12/ (Question to current GRC members) How will you feel when ALL these assets are bequethed to his sons at his passing?

13/ What do you current GRC members think of this? Or don't you think anymore?

14/ (General question to all) Can these documents be obtained through "Freedom of Information"? And how would one go about finding them.  As i am just too aware of the lack of "Freedom of Information" that resides within the "Walls" of the GRC.

 

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 5:01 AM)

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroom

Paul M wasnt doing the accounting up until I left
I retract any questions or statements regarding Paul Madden.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 9:32 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : lemonsinthestoreroomPaul M wasnt doing the accounting up until I leftI retract any questions or statements regarding Paul Madden.

Hmm very interesting anon..have you been threatened with legal action????? otherwise why would you put up such a post?

If so that would mean that PM has been viewing this site and that is the only way he would know his name was mentioned on here..then again you posted it under anon so,how could he contact you?? were you sent a private message perhaps? very very interesting indeed.

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 9:50 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous



Reply to : AnonymousReply to : lemonsinthestoreroomPaul M wasnt doing the accounting up until I leftI retract any questions or statements regarding Paul Madden.Hmm very interesting anon..have you been threatened with legal action????? otherwise why would you put up such a post?If so that would mean that PM has been viewing this site and that is the only way he would know his name was mentioned on here..then again you posted it under anon so,how could he contact you?? were you sent a private message perhaps? very very interesting indeed.




Bring it on, let the games begin. An associate of mine is rubbing his hands together, one of the best lawyers in AUS/ASIA/Pacific . Don,t worry about the media this man will make sure International media are in attendance....
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 9:52 AM)

Isn't PM's name retracted because Lemons has confirmed that he is not the accountant for the GRC. 

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 10:20 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Isn't PM's name retracted because Lemons has confirmed that he is not the accountant for the GRC.

Well..anon..that's what I'm not sure about,it's more the phrasing that interests me..very legal in his/her terminology..

And anyway anon was only asking a question if PM was the accountant not accusing him..

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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 11:54 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Hmm very interesting anon..have you been threatened with legal action?????
Not at all, if Paul Madden has nothing to do with the set up of the GRC, why involve him or allude to him being involved.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 11:58 AM)

Reply to : Anonymous

 An associate of mine is rubbing his hands together, one of the best lawyers in AUS/ASIA/Pacific
Well can you find out, if repercussions can come to anyone for posting anonymously or otherwise.  No have not been contacted by anyone.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 12:10 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

An associate of mine is rubbing his hands together, one of the best lawyers in AUS/ASIA/Pacific
Well if he is so keen to assist us here, maybe he can track down the documents dealing with the change of GRC structure.  Is he willing to do that?
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 12:12 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : AnonymousHmm very interesting anon..have you been threatened with legal action?????Not at all, if Paul Madden has nothing to do with the set up of the GRC, why involve him or allude to him being involved.
Fair enough..point taken,I was just interested,thanks for answering my question
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/02/2006 12:13 PM)

Reply to : Anonymous

Bring it on, let the games begin. An associate of mine is rubbing his hands together, one of the best lawyers in AUS/ASIA/Pacific . Don,t worry about the media this man will make sure International media are in att
Oh YAY..please introduce him,someone willing to fight for us,too good to be true.
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Anonymous
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Registered:06/04/2001


(Date Posted:10/02/2006 12:59 AM)

What about the many beautiful children who died whilst under te lords supposed protection? The Blackneys son drowned behind their house, Hubers baby suffocated under a doona, Leonnie Kennedy died of illness, Tyra Petrovics died of congenital heart disease, and that's just a small number from geelong let alone the rest which I can't think of at the moment.
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