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Title: Who Do You Love the Most?
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Posts: 575
From: USA

(Date Posted:02/20/2009 9:49 AM)
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From: MSN Nicknametudorgalusa  (Original Message)Sent: 2/20/2008 11:39 AM
Okay, this was mentioned but...who do you love the most.  Who pulls at your heart strings, who do you wish you could talk with?
For me, my first loves were Lady Jane Grey and Edward VI.  As children they were so neglected and left alone with servants alot.  No family life to speak of, and how poor Edward ached for his father's attention.  And Jane, well we all know how her parents treated her!
Comments anyone, anyone? LOL
From: MSN NicknameDylandorSent: 3/4/2008 6:31 PM
Yeah...after much mulling over...I think I would love to talk to any of the servants. You know they always knew alot about their mistresses and masters. I could get the real scoop. LOL
From: GreensleevesSent: 3/6/2008 2:52 AM
I  Anne Boleyn & Richard III  
I'd like to get Anne in a corner & tell her drop your drawers NOW missy & settle for being married off to a nice nobleman when he's tired of you because then at least you won't have to spend eternity walking around with your head tucked underneath your arm LOL
I'd like to tap RIII on the shoulder & go pssst Dickon ya dolt....are you REALLY gonna be stoopid enough to trust them Stanleys?  There's a Beaufort in their midst FFS & not just ANY Beaufort, Henry's mamma!
From: MSN NicknamechairbornerangerSent: 3/8/2008 4:35 AM
I must admit I have a certain fondness for Catherine of Aragon. She certainly behaved as a Royal and I do feel that she had loved Henry so,and had to be devastated when he chose to displace her AND her child. I do think that if Henry had allowed The Princess Mary to keep her status (and not be made a bastard because of an annullment) that Catherine would have retired, much as she loved Henry-she loved her daughter more and as the daughter of Isabella of Castille she could not understand Henry's distaste for a female Heiress.
What a tragedy. I do not blame Anne, I DO blame Henry and his insane crusade for a male heir. Just look at Elizabeth, certainly one of  the greatest Monarchs of England if not THE greatest. What folly... Melanie
From: ForeverAmberSent: 3/10/2008 11:31 PM
I'd like to know what RIII was thinking there as well to trust Henry Tudor's in-laws
I sort of like Elizabeth Woodville, because she did what no other wench had ever managed before, seduced a king into ignoring the benefits of foreign alliance.  I would hazard her prenuptial behavior with EIV was a blueprint for Anne Boleyn & Jane Seymour, only EIV happily didn't have the inconvenient old wife & could wed her posthaste.  A big part of her allure for him must have been the titillation of throwing convention to the wind & defying the father-figure Warwick had become to him as they sneaked around behind everyone's backs.  Not to mention that she was a "proven breeder of sons", having gone 2 for 2 in her previous pregnancies as Lady Grey.  Pity EIV had all those x chromosomes ROFL because the Yorkists might have had an actual dynasty had their first 3 children not been female & EV was old enough to not require a regency when EIV shucked off his mortal coil.  Can you imagine no Tudors?
From: MSN Nicknameterrilee62Sent: 3/11/2008 8:34 AM
Hmm - that reminds me - I once read a Princes in the Tower book that spent the last chapter doing a what-if-they-lived theory!  E5 didn't live long - they killed him off due to an infection in his jaw or somthing.  The Duke of York became R3 (!) and didn't marry until his 30s, marrying, I think, Katherine of Aragon!    Of course never broke with Rome, England stayed Catholic & the Reformation died out.  No Stuarts, no Germans, and no Civil War (Roundheads & Cavaliers, I mean!)  This R3 spent his time & effort re-stablizing England, as Henry Tudor did, but with the charm & style of Richard's glamorous parents.  England sent more ships out exploring the New World (no Drake the pirate attacking Spanish ships).
No Hanoverian kings of England means no Queen Victoria, and house of Windsor.  WWI didn't happen - no QV to intermarry all her grandchildren to the courts of Europe.
I can't remember 'zackly all the details, but it was quite interesting!
From: GreensleevesSent: 3/11/2008 1:51 PM
That sounds sooo familiar, what book was that, Terrilee?
From: MSN NicknameLegendaryLisette7Sent: 3/25/2008 5:36 AM
My first loves were Elizabeth 1 and Mary, Queen of Scots.  I still have trouble deciding which is the most interesting!  I also like Lady Jane Grey and King Henry VIII's sister, Mary. 
I am thinking of reading a biography of Bess Throckmorton after watching Elizabeth: The Golden Age.  She was an interesting lady!
From: GreensleevesSent: 3/25/2008 1:47 PM
O she was very interesting....AND she kept Raleigh's head in a bag
From: MSN Nicknameterrilee62Sent: 3/30/2008 10:52 PM
Greensleeves - the book I was talking about with the 'what-it' chapter is "Royal Blood" by Bertram Fields.  I forgot that his Richard III not only married Katherine of Aragon (he would have been 27, she 15) - he successfully reasserts the ancient English claim to the French throne and wins!  Their heirs inherit not only England & France but all of Ferdinand & Isabella's lands....a powerful Euro-Empire.
Must read this book again...
From: MSN Nicknamesuperdooperlove1Sent: 4/8/2008 5:36 AM
Hi everyone I'm new and I love the Tudors and history.  I just read every single book about them.   But my favourite is not a Tudor but it's Anne Boleyn (Tudor wife) Queen Anne Boleyn King Henry (Tudor) VIII's wife.  SHe was my favourite I suppose its because she was a strong woman, very educated, had morals and had an opinion.  I admire women like that.
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 4/8/2008 2:41 PM
The Tudor who is almost forgotten in this Tudor love fest is the boy King Edward VI, he barely gets a mention. Yet is was during his reign that the Church of England was truly established.
From: MSN Nicknameterrilee62Sent: 4/9/2008 7:46 AM
I'll be the first to fess up, E6 does't interest me much as a person.  During his youth, he was overshadowed by his father (literally, if you stood them side by side lol) and when king, he is ruled by either his uncle or, later, Dudley.  I feel a vague pity for him -  I believe that his happiest years were when Katherine Parr was his stepmother and she tried to create some sort of family from Henry's assorted children.  It's hard to believe that he turned against both his sisters to the point that he agreed with the Lady Jane plan.
From: MSN NicknametudorgalusaSent: 4/9/2008 12:19 PM
I have two book devoted to Edward VI "The Last Tudor King" by Hester W. Chapman and "Edward VI the Boy King"  both are very good.  Edward did more in his short time as King than most of us are aware of.  Also if he had lived think of how the history of England may have changed.
Edward had turned against Mary when she steadfastly held on to her Catholic beliefs, he always loved Elizabeth, but was encouraged by Dudley to side step her in the succession.  Edward loved Jane Grey and she had many of the same beliefs that he had.  I can see where he would agree to passing the crown to her.
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 4/9/2008 2:21 PM
There's a new book just out over here with an apt title Edward VI, The Forgotten King.
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From: USA

RE:Who Do You Love the Most?
(Date Posted:02/20/2009 9:51 AM)

From: Greensleeves Sent: 4/9/2008 5:06 PM
Edward was estranged from Mary toward the end because of her religious beliefs.....ya can't have 2 zealot fanatics is nthe same throne room I reckon LOL  Still, Elizabeth was of Edward's faith, so why he passed her over I am sure I don't know.  Perhaps because Jane was equally fanatical, while Elizabeth was more of bending to political expediency?
From: MSN Nicknametudorgalusa Sent: 4/10/2008 11:02 AM
There was also the issue that Mary and Elizabeth would marry and England would be in the hands of a foreign prince.  Everyone pretty much knew Mary would go for Spain, which she did.  Of course Lizzie never got married but they would not have expected that.
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5 Sent: 4/10/2008 2:34 PM
Ref # 16. Edward was forced, on his death bed, to disinherit Elizabeth by the Duke of Northumberland who wanted a pliable Protestant; Jane was 15 therefore a Northumberland Regency was necessary, Elizabeth however was of full age.
From: MSN Nicknamemanxie400 Sent: 4/10/2008 2:39 PM
Anne Boleyn is hands down my favorite!
I would've loved to chat with her and Katharine of Aragon too.
One other person I'd have loved to talk to is Jane Rochford.
I would so love to ask her what was she thinking!
From: Greensleeves Sent: 4/10/2008 6:18 PM
There is the "pliability" factor, Mark's right.....Northumberland definitely enjoyed his power behind the throne gig & had Edward chosen Elizabeth to succeed him rather than Jane, the Dudleys would have been politically marginalized, as she was was old enough & astute enough to rule independently.  I have to wonder about regency rules here, because sometimes a monarch was stifled by his regency council until adulthood (Richard II springs to mind, as methinks he was like 22 before he got rid of his & then only because he had finally had it with them, not because they stepped aside of their own accord), yet other times they were allowed to assume power at a much younger age.....wasn't Margaret Beaufort essentially Regent for Henry VIII for 2 months until he turned 18?  Edward IV just took the throne at age 18 sans regency at all, while Edward III got rid of Mortimer when he was 17.  Edward V, at 14, was considered too young to rule without a regency, & when did Henry VI become "of age"?  Now there's a fruitcake that should've had a regency council his whole long reign LOL
From: Greensleeves Sent: 4/10/2008 6:22 PM
Whoops, hit send too soon, meant to mention the Scots who do love a good regency as the Royal Book of Records says   Margaret Tudor's spouse, James IV, took power sans regency at like 15 or 16, didn't he?  So what's the "correct" age for this sort of thing?
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5 Sent: 4/11/2008 4:34 PM
In modern times the age of attaining maturity is 18, but before that there was not set age. It depended on when the monarch was thought to be of age. Some took longer than others, or in some cases the Regent chose to hang on to power.
From: MSN Nicknamemaureen0524 Sent: 4/27/2008 7:41 AM
Mary Queen of Scots got me by the throat when I was only about 10 years old, and I happened to pick up a child version of her biography. As I got older, I read everything I could.

Sadly, because of my loyalty to Mary, I never liked Elizabeth I. I wouldn't read about her, and wasn't at all interested in her. I still have that bias. Isn't that odd? I finally went out and bought a book about Elizabeth, just to force myself past it, but never got around to reading it. And odder still, I'm a big Anne Boleyn fan. Loved the mother, just not the daughter.
From: MSN NicknameGeorgina62 Sent: 4/28/2008 2:17 PM
I also love Anne Boleyn, I don't think she was the witch she has been portrayed as, but she refused to admit to adultery to save her daughter,which I think was very brave, imagine that child with no mother, and being brought up to never even mention her name, I feel so sorry for the both of them, perhaps thats why Elizabeth grew up to not trust anyone very much, I think it might have had the same effect on me.
From: MSN Nicknametudorgalusa Sent: 4/28/2008 3:39 PM
MQOS and Elizabeth I are both fascinating women in their own right.  I would not rule out Elizabeth just because of your early attachment to Mary Stuart.  Both of their lives are intertwined most delicately and are worth a look see.  There is a really good book out that is called "Elizabeth and Mary" and it shows each lady in her own way and how they dealt with the times.  The decisions that both of them made directly affected the other.  It is interesting to see how different their personalities were and how similar their challenges to keep their throwns.
From: MSN NicknameKira0207746 Sent: 4/28/2008 6:02 PM
If only Anne Boleyn had delivered a son.  How different life would have been for her.  Everytime I see a film about her I keep hoping its a boy.  How silly of me.  I do admire her for her gutsy manner.  I also admire Katherine Parr.  My heart breaks for Jane Grey.  She was so manipulated by her greedy parents. 
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From: USA

RE:Who Do You Love the Most?
(Date Posted:02/20/2009 9:52 AM)

From: Lady Helen Sent: 4/30/2008 7:10 PM
I too admire Lady Jane Grey - used for others purposes but I do love Elizabeth!!
From: Greensleeves Sent: 5/1/2008 1:00 PM
I'm thinking Anne refused to admit to adultery because she was innocent of such   How do you figure that by not admitting it, she saved Elizabeth, Georgina?  Just curious.
From: MSN Nicknametudorgalusa Sent: 5/1/2008 3:34 PM
I think Anne thought that if she admitted to the adultery then Elizabeth being Henry's child would be questioned, which it was anyway, but she did not want to be responsible for it or make it too easy for Henry to do it.  By not admitting there was always room for doubt. The question of Elizabeth being in the succession was very important to Anne.
From: MSN NicknameGeorgina62 Sent: 5/2/2008 1:11 PM
She was offered her life, if she admitted to adultery I also think she was innocent, but rather than have her daughter proclaimed a bastard, she had to really give up her own life is there no greater sacrifice???
She could have saved her life, but knowing what Henry was like she had no knowledge of what would happen to her daughter.
From: ForeverAmber Sent: 5/2/2008 10:36 PM
Neither Anne nor Henry Percy would admit to a precontract to nullify the royal nuptials.  As I recall, Cranmer had to trot out that tired old consanguinity device & use Mary Boleyn's affair with Henry to make his marriage to Anne invalid, much as consanguinity was the tactic employed in dissolving his marriage to Catherine.  No marriage technically meant no adultery & therefore no treason, but Henry was that determined to be rid of her.  I've never heard of any other eleventh-hour offer being made to Anne, who vehemently proclaimed her innocence of all charges at her trial, & it was glaringly obvious that Elizabeth was definitely a Tudor in looks.
I don't think there was any possible way out for Anne no matter what she admitted to or didn't; politically, Henry could not afford another "divorce" mess where he had a pair of opposing factions supporting a pair of queens causing domestic & international issues, like he had with Catherine & Anne herself.  He also did not want the legitimacy of his offspring with Jane Seymour to be disputed & the succession muddied worse than it already was by those who felt Anne was the "true" queen, were she left alive.  He was willing to publicly slap on the cuckold's horns several times over to insure this, so why would he then shrug it off & let her live if she confessed to adultery?
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