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Kiger-sales
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(Date Posted:01/14/2005 10:07 PM)

Rick,In the future, please try to spell my name right.I am not a member of SMKR, my horses are not registered in the SMKR. Please stop making false accusations about me and my horses either on a public forum or in private.I just spoke with a lawyer. Have a nice day.Brian Pfeiffer
Kiger-sales
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(Date Posted:01/14/2005 11:30 PM)

Then who dose own him. As for fake kigers the records speak for them. A court action would be good to get the fakes out in the open.
karismakigers
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(Date Posted:01/14/2005 11:52 PM)

The KMA is an association of members.  It was the MEMBERS that voted on allowing the found horses in.  Hell, Rick, you even voted "Yes" on it.  You and your family even owned found Kigers.  According to Oregon law, the membership vote stands.  It would take another membership vote to revoke the previous membership vote...probably at the Annual meeting.  The KMA is run by the membership....it isn't a one person show.


You mention that "court action would be good to get the fakes out in the open".  Found Kigers are designated in the PUBLICALLY PUBLISHED studbook of KMA.  This allows people to avoid them if they so wish to.  KMA doesn't hide their pedigrees.  They don't hide which horses are registered or which horse are not allowed for registeration.  It is out in the open in the studbook.  Anyone can buy the studbook....even non-members and non Kiger owners.


You keep mentioning court actions and lawsuits......NOTHING that KMA did was illegal.  It was the majority of the membership that voted "yes" on the issue and by Federal and State laws....that is LEGAL.  You might not like it....but KMA is a membership and thus it is the membership that controls what KMA does. 


Jillian


 

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(Date Posted:01/15/2005 12:53 AM)

Before KMA closed the book to outside horses they put many in and even changed the birth place of them. They were to pass proving standards to become real kigers none ever did.  The records on thoses horses are in the files of many. If you are saying that KMA members can vote in any horse as a kiger why do that or is it most of the members have them to make money on. As for me voting on found horses yes but they were all to be tested not just passed by with no testing at all like KMA did. You did not say where El Steens is. Yes we adopted Biltz from the Warm Spring HMA then the KMA registar changed his birth place to the Kiger HMA why do you think that was. If you or KMA think they takeing Ut and Nv horses and make them kigers I want to see you prove that to a court.
karismakigers
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(Date Posted:01/15/2005 1:58 AM)

Rick, I don't know where El Steen is.  What does it matter where or who owns him?  And before you jump to conclusion, no, I don't own him.  He is a beautiful horse though. 


Yes, it is true that a found horse had to prove itself.  It had to produce X number of offspring that were inspected and passed as breeding stock (scoring 90 or higher on inspection).  By virtue that the offspring from a found horse was registered in the KMA proves that the offspring was scoring 90 or higher...hence proving the original found horse as being able to reproduce in kind.


You state, "If you are saying that KMA members can vote in any horse as a kiger why do that "   Okay, so why did YOU vote for the found horse issue?  What was YOUR motivation as a then KMA member? I'd honestly like to know...


Rick, you stated, " As for me voting on found horses yes but they were all to be tested not just passed by with no testing at all like KMA did."


The 'testing' that the found horses had to do was: 1) Pass inspection themselves by scoring 90 or above.  2) Reproduce in kind, by reproducing X number of offspring that passed inspection and scored 90 or above.  I believe the X number was 5 in stallions and 2 or 3 in mares.  I haven't looked at the details in several years.  By virtue of the fact that offspring from the found horses were being registered, that means that those horses passed inspection...thus fulfilling the requirement that found horse to reproduce in kind.


You said, "If you or KMA think they takeing Ut and Nv horses and make them kigers I want to see you prove that to a court. "


Court again?  I don't have to prove it to a court.  KMA doesn't have to prove it to a court.  It was the MEMBERS that decided to open the stud book open and accept outside HMA horses.  Many registries had open studbooks for a while....the AQHA would register ANY horse for $15 when their studbook was open.  The Morgan horse registry was open at one time.  These registries allowed in horses that looked like their kind to be registered. 


Jillian


 

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(Date Posted:01/15/2005 3:42 AM)

My motive was to see it some of the other herds in SE Oreogn carried the same blood lines as the ones in the Steens. They realy did and do not. You think I wanted them to make money for me we I gave the mare Bell away free at the time so I guess that stops that idea. If KMA had of went throught the proving like we wanted and was told would happen it would have been ok: Fact of life they did not then or ever. So all the horses put in were not or never will be kigers . El Steens is at most a 1/2 so any thing from him regitered as a full is fake. Before I answer you any more, how about the changing of birth places of horses by Mnaford. He did it the Refield , Keller , Blitz and many of his.
karismakigers
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(Date Posted:01/15/2005 4:49 AM)

"If KMA had of went throught the proving like we wanted and was told would happen it would have been ok: Fact of life they did not then or ever."



So, Rick, if KMA has a public inquest into each of the found horses and determines that they DID indeed produce the required number of "Kiger-type" offspring....then everything about the found horse issue would be okay with you? You would stop attacking the found horse by calling them fakes and threating with court this and court that?



At the March meeting, I'll buy the latest update of the studbook and go through and determine if each found horse has at least the required number of KMA registered offspring. If they are registered as breeding stock, then they scored 90 or higher. I will not look at non-breeding stock found horses as that is a moot point. They didn't pass inspection, thus none of their offspring would be registerable.





You said, "Before I answer you any more, how about the changing of birth places of horses by Mnaford. He did it the Refield , Keller , Blitz and many of his. "



Rick, current KMA studbook has the birth HMA of all the horses registered by KMA. By the way, would you please change Vale FoxFire and Vale Charmer on your website to reflect their true HMAs, they are SHEEPSHEAD not Vale. There is no Vale HMA, call the Burns District if you need proof. Vale is the town closest to the HMA....just like Diamond is listed for Kiger HMA. Those registering at the time mistakenly put down the town not the HMA. The current studbook shows their true HMAs. Thanks.



Jillian

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Kiger Dunsmuir
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(Date Posted:01/15/2005 6:02 AM)

That would be true. If all the found horses that were put in the KMA but not the Nv Ut and Ca ones were actualy proven to meet the requirements that we set they would be real kigers.But how are going to test this.Each stud had to have 5 foal form 5 differnt mares that meet the standards. Each mare had to have 3 consective foals with out one not meeting the standards. How can you trust the papers and people when they went as far as forging the birth place of horse to hid the sale of them. If you could do it by trustworth dna then yes the found or fake issue could go away. Yes I tink the kma stud book is right as far as the birth places but lots of people lost money and were hurt by letting happen. The only reason they changed it was because they could go to jail do something like that. Rember if you try to do this and cant one some horses people that own them would have a great chance to get their damages. So yes I will be all for it.
karismakigers
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