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kigerfan
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(Date Posted:11/04/2007 7:31 PM)
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And God took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath over it and created the horse. ~ Bedouin Legend
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angelsdream
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(Date Posted:11/04/2007 8:11 PM)
This stuff sounds good. The ranches that you talked to about this product, what were the biggest notices that they saw in the horse's and what did they use it for (lameness, general health)?
Thanks for sharing the information!!!
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kigerfan
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(Date Posted:11/04/2007 10:34 PM)
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And God took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath over it and created the horse. ~ Bedouin Legend
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karismakigers
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(Date Posted:11/04/2007 11:17 PM)
I personally wouldn't feed it.
A quick look at the "ingredients" shows mostly heavy metals and trace elements not know to have any value to animals. http://laminitis911.com/horses_labanalysis.html Looking at whats in there, it is essentially a neatly packaged portion of dirt. Some of the items in there make my hair stand on end though. Several have been found around nuclear waste dump sites. There are similar products on the market here in the US from Utah and Nevada, all with high levels of radiactive elements. Sure radiactive elements are everywhere. Go outside and scoop up some soil and you'll probably have a similar list of analysis. But the soil outside your back door might be safer than this stuff.
EPA has set the arsenic standard for drinking water at .010 parts per million. This product contains 0.20 parts per million. Many times the EPA level for safe arsenic levels. Plus the hay that you feed is also absorbing some arsenic from the soil, so your horse's total intake can be even higher.
Thallium- Product has 10 parts per million. "Studies in people who ingested large amounts of thallium over a short time have reported vomiting, diarrhea, temporary hair loss, and effects on the nervous system, lungs, heart, liver, and kidneys. It has caused death. It is not known what the effects are from ingesting low levels of thallium over a long time."
Dysprosium- Product has 4 parts per million.
"As with the other lanthanides, dysprosium compounds are of low to moderate toxicity, although their toxicity has not been investigated in detail. Dysprosium does not have any known biological properties."
Thorium- Product has over 100 parts per million. Why don't they give you an actual number. 'Over 100' is not an accurate analysis, what don't they want you to know??? What is the actual ppm for the product? Death occurs in mice fed 1000 ppm longer than 14 days.
Uranium- Product has over 100 parts per million. Again, just like Thorium, why don't they give you an actual number? Typical concentrations in soil are a few parts per million (ppm) for Uranium. That is no where close to the "over 100" that the product lists.
This product is probably tailings from another mining operation. A by-product. Add a little binder, make it into a pellet and get a veterinarian from Argentina to state that it is great stuff. By the way, that 'study' was never officially published and never reviewed by anyone in the veterinary industry. It does not state whether they changed their feed supplier (they stated that the laminitis was caused by mold toxins). It did not state whether they did any aggressive ferrier work on the horses to minimize the laminitis damage. It didn't state whether the 150 horses that were stalled had any changes to the their routine (more turn-out time, etc.). They didn't even include a control group (stalled horses that were receiving no miracle mineral) to demonstrate that the changes would not have occurred under natural circumstances. There was mention of X-rays, but they never presented them as evidence of the improvements.
>>>Once these initial changes took place, a better displacement of the horses was observed. Although the vast majority of them never returned fully to be used in the ring, a visible improvement of the laminitic condition took place. Horses that could not walk did so, living at least a kind of life that would allow them to reproduce and be of some service.>>>
This is no different than an untreated horse suffering from laminitis. Once the trigger is removed (toxic feed, grain overload, road jarring, etc.) the horse starts to improve. He states that most of the horses never returned to the ring but they could walk and be breeding stock. Well, so could a laminatic horse that receives no treatment of special minerals. The best "repair" for laminitis/founder is careful and proper hoof trimming. Keeping the horse confortable while it grows a new hoof.
>>>But the real effect of the Trace Minerals was observed as the first year of treatment was completed: no more rotations occurred and the Laminitis cases became so infrequent, that we could expect them only when major changes of the food components took place, such as in the changes of seasons, from rainy season to dry or vice versa. We went from more than 10% incidence to zero rotations.>>>
So, they continued to feed their horses the aflatoxin infected feed??? If they are stating that no more rotations occurred BECAUSE of the mineral, then they would have had to keep them on the toxic feed, otherwise it would screw with the results. Were there no rotation because they were fed the miracle mineral or because the ranch stopped feeding the toxic feed?
Personally, I'd save the money and not buy a fancy package of dirt.
Jillian McIntosh
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Karisma Kigers
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angelsdream
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(Date Posted:11/04/2007 11:19 PM)
Ok.. Well interesting.....It's on the way. When it gets here, I'll take it to my vet and see what he says about it. I've never thought to look at any of the minerals we feed, for examples, the mineral salt blocks, what's in them?
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DMR
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(Date Posted:11/04/2007 11:49 PM)
While in the surface, it sounds great, and I am not a specialist I am confused by some of the things that they said in the article. I am assuming that they are a facility that takes in a lot of horses with laminitis. That being said, I am no specialist, but have always thought that carbs were the last thing that you were to give a horse with laminitis. So, why then would they be using it as a major food source?
I am always looking for a good, healthy quality trace mineral program. I agree that horse nutrition is lacking. I don't like most of the product on the shelves, they add needless crap and don't include what is really needed. So, keep the articles coming. Education is key!
Kris
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K. Stoop
Dead Mule Ranch
Washington
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kigerfan
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(Date Posted:11/04/2007 11:54 PM)
Angelsdream, yes, please post what your vet says when it arrives. I've not found any articles of anyone 'downing' the product yet but I will continue to research. I am no expert either (by a long shot) but I do believe that mineral supplements are needed. Keep us informed on your vet's response.
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And God took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath over it and created the horse. ~ Bedouin Legend
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karismakigers
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(Date Posted:11/05/2007 12:19 AM)
>>I've never thought to look at any of the minerals we feed, for examples, the mineral salt blocks, what's in them?>>
Each manufacture has a different formula that they use. Generic mineral salt blocks are created to be safe regardless of where the owner feeds them. Same with generic bagged mineral/salt. It has to be safe for horses in Oregon as well as Texas as well as New York. Even though the actual mineral needs of those areas are drastically different. Some areas are deficient in selenium, other areas have adequate or moderately high levels of selenium. A generic mineral is safe to feed to any horse at any location.
The best mineral salt that you can feed is one made specific to your area/region. Talk to your vet and see if they do custom mineral. Many of our veterinarians in our area have custom mineral/vitamin mixes that are specifc for Central Oregon. Talk to all the large animal practices within a 100 mile radius of your place, I'm sure one of them has a custom mineral mix specially for your area.
Most mineral mixes have Calcium, Phosphorus, Sodium, Chlorine, Sulfur, Potassium, Magnesium, Iodine, Colbalt, Copper, Zinc, Manganese, Iron, Selenium. The type of mineral determines how absorbable it will be to the animal. For example, zinc sulfate is more bioavailable than zinc oxide. Therefore a mix with zinc sulfate will better give supplementation of zinc to the animal than one with zinc oxide as the zinc source. Also some mineral are controlled or influenced by others. Molybdenum can control the body's uptake of copper. If your hay is grown in high molybdenum areas, your horse will have higher levels of molybdenum and will not be able to absorb much copper, even to the point of creating a deficiency of copper.
A good place to find what minerals are needed in every day processes and at what levels is to visit www.saltinstitute.org At the top right side there is a 'search' button. Put in the keyword animals This will show you all the articles on animals....look up Colbalt, Copper, Zinc, etc. A great FAQ is here. http://www.saltinstitute.org/stmfaqs.html There are other places on the internet as well.
Jillian
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Karisma Kigers
Home of
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karismakigers
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(Date Posted:11/05/2007 1:09 AM)
>>While in the surface, it sounds great, and I am not a specialist I am confused by some of the things that they said in the article. I am assuming that they are a facility that takes in a lot of horses with laminitis. That being said, I am no specialist, but have always thought that carbs were the last thing that you were to give a horse with laminitis. So, why then would they be using it as a major food source? >>
Kris, the "study" was done at a Columbian Paso breeders ranch. They had 550 horses there. 150 were stalled. Of the stalled horses (150) 18 had founder or laminitis issues. 78 were mares, 72 were stallions. Their feeding consisted of grain spoiled with alfatoxins. The "study" does not mention hay sources (grass vs alfalfa vs other). They only fed the miracle mineral to the stalled horses. All the stalled horses were given some amount of the miracle mineral. There was no control group (horses stalled, having laminitis issues, but not receiving miracle mineral). All recoveries noted were typical progression of founder/laminitis horses.
First few days - no changes
Day 5- horses started to stand
Day 11- all founder horses standing
Day 5-11- first steps taken by foundered horses, 2 horses never walked during this period
Day 11-20- two horse still haven't walked. 16 of the 18 foundered horses had posture changes
Day 21-30- most horses walking, some trotting. The two horses that were completely lame have started taking small steps.
Also, shiny hair has appeared in coat.hydration of skin is good, hoof growth has increased.
After 31 days- arterial caudal pressure has dropped to normal ranges, some still limping, some weight gain, two horses are still very lame. Hoof growth has average 5/8 of an inch.
After 60 days- most horses walking/running normally.
Aftre 90 days- A few entered saddle work, 7 horses became lame with training (retired to breeding), 9 horses returned to training (of these only 4 were return to showing)
Nearly 6 months-- horses left grain in feeders, fecal output lessened.
If anyone has had to deal with a founder or laminatic horse, this progression is very familar to you. The miracle mineral has nothing to do with the recoveries of these horses.
I wholeheartly support utilizing minerals/vitamins/amino acids in horse nutrition. But I have problems with this "study"
1) no control group. Every experimental design study requires a control/negative group to show that benefits couldn't have have spontaneously happened. Maybe they shed because it was spring and the temperatures/light were increasing. Maybe the hay feed was a better quality than at start of trial.
2) no details on seasons, hay quality, hoof care, turn out time of stalled horses, work/training schedule of study participants, etc. These all impact the study. Did the hoof care change of hte other 132 horses that hadn't had laminitis issues that prevented them from having it? Better trimming angles, more consistent schedule,etc.
3) study was not published in any scientific journals for peer review. For example, my husband wrote a scientific paper for a class in college about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide. It had pages and pages of supporting documentation about how deadly dihydrogen monoxide was, how many people it killed every year, that it was every where, in our food, the air we breath. Everyone has dihydrogen monoxide in their bodies now, its in the environment, that it needs to be regulated and controlled. All with scientific resources for everything that was stated. Everything was true, pure fact. However, dihydrogen monoxide is water. Plain water.
4) no details on the aflatoxin in the grain. It stated that aflaltoxin was the cause of the laminitis and that nearly all grain sources down there have aflatoxin in it. They should have done daily or weekly analysis of hte grain feed to show if the level of aflatoxin present changed at all. Were there no more cases of founder/laminitis because the grain being feed had lower levels of aflatoxin than the grain that was feed before the study began?
You get the picture....there are simply too many holes in this study for it to be a legitament scientific study of the product's ability.
Jillian
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Karisma Kigers
Home of
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kigerfan
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(Date Posted:11/05/2007 1:40 AM)
I brought all of the listed concerns to their attention and will post whatever response I receive from it. I'm still researching and darned if I can't find anyone that says anything bad about it that has tried it. Here's another post .....
Healthy Hoof Newsletter
- ANIMAL TRACE MINERALS. We have seen remarkable improvement in hoof quality in horses that have been given the chelated mineral supplement called Animal Trace Minerals. Here in South Florida, could it be that our pasture grass and hay is so deficient in certain necessary minerals that the horses just aren't getting what they need to build stronger hooves? The results from using Power Horse seem to indicate that this supplement is really filling a need.
I'm continuing the reseach, I'm just too curious about it all. I did some research on salt blocks too. I'll give more on that later.
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And God took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath over it and created the horse. ~ Bedouin Legend
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karismakigers
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(Date Posted:11/05/2007 3:36 AM)
It will be interesting what they say.
I see that the product contains 15 parts per million of Lead. Why on earth would you want lead in your horse's diet?
"Lead has no known biological role in the body. The toxicity comes from its ability to mimic other biologically important metals, the most notable of which are calcium, iron and zinc. Lead is able to bind to and interact with the same proteins and molecules as these metals, but after displacement, those molecules function differently and fail to carry out the same reactions, such as in producing enzymes necessary for certain biological processes. Most clinical symptoms of lead poisoning begin at around 100 ppb. The effect on children's mental/cognitive abilities has been noted at very low levels."
If clinical symptoms occur with 100 parts per BILLION, why would you want to feed 15 parts per MILLION?
Just because there is no website warning against this product doesn't mean it isn't unsafe. For the last 15 years, people have been feeding wet brewers grains and digested solids left from corn processing. It is a cheap protein source and it has been added to lots of supplements and feeds. The dairy industry has used it to keep feed costs down. Finally, the last few years they have been able to link it to hundreds of deaths. For sulphur toxicity. Horses aren't as affected by it as ruminants are. Very little sulfur is absorbed by the horses large intestine & colon, but for ruminants who constantly ferment and rework their food, the food hangs around too long allowing for over absorption of the sulphur. Finally the veterinary industry has been able to nail down the culpit and is starting to spread the word.
Jillian
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Karisma Kigers
Home of
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