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kigeranne
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1#
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/23/2008 3:47 PM)
Good questions Bettye, but maybe much more complex than intended. There is a difference in riding a balanced horse and having a balanced ride. One can ride a balanced horse with good conformation and not have a balanced ride. One can also successfully have a balanced ride on an unbalanced not "perfect conformation" horse. Thinking a bit deep here, I guess. Melissa
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"My treasures do not clink together or glitter, they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night."
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OkieKigers
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2#
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/24/2008 12:39 PM)
That's really a good response since where I'd like to go is "what people percieve as balanced". Of course, you know me, my immediate thought is from a conformation standpoint. But what got me thinking about this was a friend was riding one of our starts and he reminded me that you can really tell how well a horse balances himself if you are on him bareback and just ask him to go from pont A to point B. You can even close your eyes and "feel it", and it isn't just about equality of the shoulder barrel and hip. So I guess "balance" needs to be thought of from several perspectives, not just in terms of trapazoids and body segments. I tend to think in terms of "whats the easiest in the long term"...for example, in training, some people like a challenge but I'm kind of the thinking that why bother when there are so many good-minded horses in the world. Not everybody feels that way, though. So maybe in terms of balance that is why I look for onformational balance first of all since there would be less need to make accomodations, as opposed to owning a horse that is not as well balanced as another.
But since this has more than one aspect, I was just wondering what mustang lovers keep their eye out for.
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If the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle. --Rita Mae Brown
http://www.wilnet1.com/~okiekigers
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MysticKiger
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3#
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Rank:none
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From: USA
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/25/2008 5:14 AM)
Balance is a deep subject as far as I'm concerned. A horse's natural balance is greatly affected the moment you sit on it, bareback or saddled. Then pick up the reins, yet another affect. Sure conformation plays into it some but the rider, the saddle fit, and the "job" plays a bigger role in balance to me.
Bettye, maybe I have tunnel vision here but what does going from point A to point B bareback on level ground (my assumption) prove in the terms of balance? I can see where it would give you a feel for the horses's forwardness and impulsion but I have seen many good conformation horses that do not have this. Just go to any show, Western Pleasure, Dressage, Hunter. You will see good conformation horses not using themselves. Most of this is due to training. Forward is easily trained out of "good minded" horses.
If you want a horse to trail ride around here you need one that uses it's backend and isn't heavy on the forehand or you'll be going nose over tail down the hills. There are tons of good conformation, quiet aka good minded horses around here that I would never take down the trails. Keep them on the flats!
Correct riding and correct saddle fit are the answers to balance in my thinking.
Karen
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"You must learn to read the horse's expression. The horse has multitudes of actions and reactions. They are all separate, yet inseparable. The horse will always tell you the facts. The horse is very honest." Ray Hunt
Riding turns "I wish" into "I can" __ Pam Brown
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kigeranne
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4#
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Rank:none
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/25/2008 6:07 AM)
Balance is required for forward motion no matter what direction, maneuver or speed intended. Even the stationary reining horse 360* spin requires a great deal of balance, forward motion and some speed to perform. Backing is based on forward motion.
More balance is often required for speed control in forward motion, such as the jog, collected lope or canter and other more difficult maneuvers. Forward motion can be taking place with very little distance being covered. This is my understanding of forward motion.
Melissa
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"My treasures do not clink together or glitter, they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night."
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MysticKiger
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5#
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Rank:none
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From: USA
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/25/2008 7:22 AM)
"I can see where it would give you a feel for the horses's forwardness and impulsion but I have seen many good conformation horses that do not have this. " I agree totally Melissa. If you want to see how balanced a horse is turn the speed up a bit maintaining that driving from behind, forward motion and see how quickly a horse can become unbalanced. I'll bet the same horse in the same manuever will balance differently depending on rider, saddle, hoof trim, shoe weight and balance and the list goes on. Here's a site that I think has some easy to understand visuals as they pertain to balance, http://www.ridingart.com/balance.htm . You don't have to have an interest in dressage to benefit from some of the info in this article. It applies to any rider, any horse in my opinion. A horse that can piaffe in the pasture cannot just piaffe undersaddle. It takes a great deal of balance and training for both horse and rider regardless of how correct the conformation is. I guess that's what irritates me the most about all the sale ads out there. Most horses are good prospects for many things. It's the training that makes them what they are. Sorry Bettye, I guess I think this thread belongs in Training rather than Color, Conformation and Type. Karen Karen
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"You must learn to read the horse's expression. The horse has multitudes of actions and reactions. They are all separate, yet inseparable. The horse will always tell you the facts. The horse is very honest." Ray Hunt
Riding turns "I wish" into "I can" __ Pam Brown
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OkieKigers
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6#
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Rank:none
Score:3536
Posts:1952
From: USA
Registered:09/03/2002
Time spent: 15184 hours
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/25/2008 11:51 AM)
While a lot depends on the rider, which might lean in the direction of training, there are still some conformation traits that will make a huge difference in a horse's natural way of going.
The A to B thing, above, for example, is about alignment, which also has to do with balance. And of course it would be based on the assumption that the RIDER is sitting properly. And I may be wrong about this, but to me, it isn't just spinal alignment, but can also tell you a lot about the horses natural footfall. Please don't stop on my account talking about the training aspects of balance, me not being much of a trainer I can learn and need to learn some things here. Just want to inenterate there are quite a few horses who are physically out of whack and thus not as easy to enjoy. We've discussed balance before from the profile aspect. But going beyond that, symmetry is something to consider (granted no horse or person is truly symmetrical, but some more so than others)
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If the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle. --Rita Mae Brown
http://www.wilnet1.com/~okiekigers
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Horse Stuff
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7#
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Rank:none
Score:528
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Registered:12/18/2003
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/25/2008 6:03 PM)
From what has been said it seems that balance is a study of movement and that conformation is important, as is training for both the horse and rider? I don't understand the particulars of equine movement, but was once pretty good at analyzing it in the Siberian Husky.
If one were to objectively watch their movement, one could see a dog move very nicely at one speed, but not as well when asked to move either faster or slower. The same being true on different surfaces. When studyed closely, conformation faults could be seen.
With dogs of very good conformation, movement at different rates of speed, on different surfaces, up or down hill would usually exhibit exceptional grace and "balance". They would definately stand out from those mentioned previously.
Is this true in horses as well, and is this what we are looking for when discussing balance. Thanks for the help in my better understanding this subject. ...Tom
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Have a wild ride, or a ride from the wild!
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Verano
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8#
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Rank:none
Score:268
Posts:232
Registered:07/23/2003
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/29/2008 8:59 PM)
Wow..I haven't checked this site in ages but needed a "kiger fix" since I'm about to lose mine.
Amigo has been for sale & I've only allowed one (out of over 40 replies) person come to meet him..but that's another story.We're talking "balance"here and one of the important selling points for him has been his amazing natural balance.Today he was ridden for only the 7th time since Feburary and he executed perfect counter canter & canter sepentines as well as everything else he was asked to perform.My trainer says he's the most balanced young horse she's ever ridden.He makes it look easy.He has a really huge,deep hind quarters & naturaly collects himself carrying himself in an"uphill"manner.
A horse can be trained to collect & use himself to the best of his ability but conformation is what will determine how well he'll perform and if he'll be able to stay sound & useful, paticularily in strenuous athlethic pursuits.
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pepperja
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MysticKiger
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9#
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Rank:none
Score:237
Posts:185
From: USA
Registered:09/07/2002
Time spent: 4965 hours
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:06/30/2008 5:25 AM)
Nice to hear from you Verano! Amigo is a lovely horse, that's for certain! From the pictures I've seen he definitely has the uphill build that's necessary to get upper level, athletic manuevers. I agree that conformation and natural balance go a long way when a horse is ridden correctly. As you said, makes it look easy. But I still insist that even that type of horse must be ridden correctly to be balanced. Not picking on you at all, but your trainer was riding the serpentines. Can a beginner or even intermediate rider with lesser feel and balance get the same ride?
I now know how the meaning of this statement made by my dressage instructor " You have a 4th level horse there. Unfortunately, you are not a 4th level rider." "No kidding!" was my laughing reply. Lots of wet saddle blankets is what it takes for horse and rider. Mystic and I just rode our very first tests at a schooling show this past weekend! Only Intro A & B but it's a start. Mystic scored very well; me, well I did okay too.
Karen
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"You must learn to read the horse's expression. The horse has multitudes of actions and reactions. They are all separate, yet inseparable. The horse will always tell you the facts. The horse is very honest." Ray Hunt
Riding turns "I wish" into "I can" __ Pam Brown
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nrly_nola
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10#
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:07/15/2008 12:35 AM)
wow I got allot out of that site, but I also didn't understand allot, but I was wondering where can I or even can I buy a book or video on this balance horse, and rider, it is something I want to learn and change in my riding, and my horse's.
nola
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OkieKigers
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11#
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Rank:none
Score:3536
Posts:1952
From: USA
Registered:09/03/2002
Time spent: 15184 hours
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RE:Who rides a balanced horse?
(Date Posted:07/15/2008 1:49 AM)
Gee, I started this thread and then didn't get back to it until now!
Hey,Nola, I'm soon to be 59 and still make it to a clinic every now and then, still learning. A couple of ones I went to by parelli instructors were very helpful regarding balance. Christi Raines at a Level One clinic was great regarding rider position and another one I observed by Grady Carter mentioned several things about symetry in the horse...some of which I took to heart immediately and some of which my verdict is still out about (he's the one who said that a horse who has a split mane is not symetrical, something I covered in a board topic some time ago....that's something that is kind of up there with reading hair sworls and some folks think there is something to it while others don't) But even if you can only go to a schooling session as an observer you take something with you. Books and videos are a big help but it's even better if you can go somewhere where you can ask questions and get a personal response. It would really be great if we could all afford to take our horses to those well known instructors but most of us don't have the cash...you can still sit in on many of them for little or no money and I think you'll get more out of it than a video.
Jeanne, I hate to hear that you are parting with Amigo. Whoever gets him is going to be one lucky person.
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If the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle. --Rita Mae Brown
http://www.wilnet1.com/~okiekigers
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