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Christ1an
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1#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:06/03/2006 6:41 PM)
I found a real interesting article on spay/neuter which is posted under the General topics under the thread "? on female". The article talks about the affects of spaying and neutering the pups, lots of stuff I didn't know before. The article states that spayed and neutered dogs have unwanted sexual behaviours. I have a spayed female and she will hump. I have an intact male dog and he doesn't mark inside. Training? Lack of other male dogs? Hard to say why these things work out the way they do. Hard for me, anyway, others will be very dogmatic, if you will, in their opinions. But then, dogmatism is just puppyism come to full flower.
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MsBritmor
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2#
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(Date Posted:06/04/2006 9:27 PM)
Reply to : Gayle420
Buddy turned 5 months old today. He's 16 pounds, very energetic, and a great dog, but lately he's been a bit territorial/snappy around people, although he backs down as soon as he knows they're friendly. He's marking everything in sight (outside) and walks aroundthe border of our property peeing on everything. Then this morning we found him trying to hump the cat, who until today has been his wrestling buddy.
You have a rather dominant puppy, and neutering *might* help a bit with this.... but it also might not. I can certainly guarantee that if you don't start being more proactive with this boy that he will get much worse as he gets into adolescence and beyond. (Personally, I would neuter to cut down on the testosterone.)
He needs to be in ongoing obedience classes for several months, and you need to have strangers give him treats and pet and hold him. He must learn that everyone is nice and has something wonderful for him. You must practice Nothing in Life is Free with him and you should do Long Downs with him at least three times a week.
Simply put, in my language, you need to **sit on this boy's face** until he gets his act together and becomes a dog that everyone loves instead of the terrorist he seems to heading toward.
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Karen Brittan
Britmor Schnauzers
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
-Author Unknown-
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Curbside Prophet
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3#
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(Date Posted:06/04/2006 10:15 PM)
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"All for the love of a bearded lady."
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surfone
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4#
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(Date Posted:06/05/2006 12:21 AM)
FWIW...
My freinds five year old male mini is intact and the sweetest dog in the world. Doesn't try to hump anyone, ever. Not even kids or animals
who are closer to his leverage power lol My freinds mini fluctuates between submissive and dominant otherwise. He's too dominant on the
leash, tends to run away when called and has to be chased down, but in the house the sweet little lap dog. He just swings back and forth,
but other than the running isn't greatly challenged in terms of behavior. His problems are not related to his personality I don't think so much
as knowing my freind has spent little to no time actually teaching his dog any formal commands. Not judging, just noting.
My pup is four months old and I'm not going to neuter him. He has a great disposition naturally however, he is now at an age where he's
exerting some brattiness more frequently and tending to test my willpower. He's very bright but as MsBritmor so succinctly put it, I'm going
to have to really sit on him for awhile. When he and the above dog got together, when my pup was only ten weeks old, he was already
attempting to hump the older male. Unfortunantly, I'd hoped the older male would set him straight quickly but he didn't. He tolerated it and
so I did the correcting. If he tries it directly with me, I squash it instantly and firmly.
I think the point about spaying or neutering working to calm a dog down being not necessarily THE FIX is well taken. I've also seen spayed
and neutered dogs really acting dominant. Guess it just comes back down to the owner and yeah, it's ultimately a personal decision.
One thing though: I do feel I have an extra responsibility for my dog that cannot be forgotten. He can never, ever get free of me to reproduce
haphazardly. So I think for that reason the argument for spaying or neutering is in a lot of owners interests depending on lifestyle and such.
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Anonymity is not a bad thing. We use it in the very highest expression of the freedom that seperates our country from so many others, and in fact guarantees our freedoms as citizens of these great United States: Voting. -- author unknown
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hollie9
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5#
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(Date Posted:06/07/2006 7:07 AM)
What reason is there to not spay/neuter a dog except if it is a highly qualifed stud/bitch? And you want to go to the work and expense of breeding and whelping.
As a prior breeder of retrievers where I had both the stud and bitch in tact, it was a lot of work keeping the bitch away from other males when in heat (and I failed more than once), and the male would run off after the scent of a female in heat, when he would have stuck around if neutered.
We all know there are too many dogs that are put down, which wouldn't be if not from an imperfect union.
It's been my experience that their temperment is calmed by spay/neuter.
Anyone?
Hollie
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MsBritmor
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6#
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(Date Posted:06/07/2006 8:16 PM)
Reply to : hollie9
It's been my experience that their temperment is calmed by spay/neuter.
Mine, too. It removes a lot of stress from their lives.
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Karen Brittan
Britmor Schnauzers
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
-Author Unknown-
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sweetestgirlever
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7#
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(Date Posted:06/08/2006 1:17 AM)
Reply to : hollie9
What reason is there to not spay/neuter a dog except if it is a highly qualifed stud/bitch? We all know there are too many dogs that are put down, which wouldn't be if not from an imperfect union.
 I believe in let and let live in almost all cases...but I'm with Holly on this one...I think it is irresponsible to keep a dog intact when you have no intentions of breeding them...all I have to do is watch the myriad of different animal rescue shows out there to see what can so easily happen to unwanted animals.
Marg
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surfone
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8#
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(Date Posted:06/08/2006 2:47 PM)
I don't mean to be controversial, but I think the irresponsibility is not in choosing to leave a dog
intact, but rather allowing that intact dog free range without supervision. An owner's dog can't breed
unless the owner is not controlling or not supervising the dog. I'm NOT arguing against neutering
or spaying at all. Just that the responsibility is, in my mind, one of being aware of where your
dog is at any time.
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Anonymity is not a bad thing. We use it in the very highest expression of the freedom that seperates our country from so many others, and in fact guarantees our freedoms as citizens of these great United States: Voting. -- author unknown
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surfone
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9#
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(Date Posted:06/09/2006 1:32 AM)
Irony intrudes...I may be eating my own words here, but I think my pup might be one for the neutering arguments.
What worries me is that I read somewhere that there's evidence that it is neutering and spaying that might
lead to certain cancers, not leaving them intact. I've really been thinking it over and this thread has had an influence.
Should I consider breeding him? Would I? Who would I breed him to? Would either be the best of the breed? Is it
a show ring that gives breeding credentials? But if a champion isn't necessarily a good breeder, and I have no
intention of investing the time into showing him, that answer doesn't matter does it? I can't think of a time
I would actually breed Nitro. Mainly because I DO like the breed and would not want to contribute to the
problem of backyard breeding.
My last dog was neutered, so I'm not against neutering. But Nitro's barely past four months and already
exhibiting some what I guess could be called sexually mature behavior. He tried to hump a five year
old male schnauzer. That older dog is intact, and so far removed from being dominant in any way and
never humps anyones legs. Still waffling a bit...
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Anonymity is not a bad thing. We use it in the very highest expression of the freedom that seperates our country from so many others, and in fact guarantees our freedoms as citizens of these great United States: Voting. -- author unknown
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hollie9
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10#
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(Date Posted:06/09/2006 3:54 AM)
It's my understanding humping is more about dominance than sex unless there is a dog in heat around.
I've read the opposite, that spay/neuter is a way to avoid many dog health problems.
I thought I could control my intact dogs when I was breeding, I kept my bitch confined inside a garage. She still got out and was taken by the neighbor's male, not the male I wanted to breed her to. This happened twice. I'm sure my male sired off breed pups even though I had the cages, buildings and will to keep him confined. It's harder with males because they could take off quickly anytime they get a whiff. You'll be surprised how adept they are at getting away when there is a bitch in heat within a few miles. And then do you want to keep your dog in a cage a lot of the time? If he was neutered you wouldn't have to worry.
Hollie
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surfone
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11#
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(Date Posted:06/09/2006 5:25 AM)
No, I wouldn't want to keep Nitro in a cage a lot of the time. Definently not. I couldn't
do that to him. That's no kind of life.
I'm just still confused about it right now to be honest.
I think even if I got Nitro trained to the point he was specatcular off leash, I wouldn't let him off except
under the most ideal circumstances. Like, he was competing or we were in an empty field or I had
a fenced in yard. I don't have a fenced in yard now, so he's never, ever off leash when we're outside.
And except for those ideal circumstances, it will always be that way.
Not to belabor the point, but my freinds ms is lucky enough to live in locations most of the time
that he lets his intact male off leash a lot. There's never any other dogs around when he does. HIs
dog is really calm and five years old.
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Anonymity is not a bad thing. We use it in the very highest expression of the freedom that seperates our country from so many others, and in fact guarantees our freedoms as citizens of these great United States: Voting. -- author unknown
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hollie9
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12#
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(Date Posted:06/11/2006 1:32 AM)
my freinds ms is lucky enough to live in locations most of the time
that he lets his intact male off leash a lot. There's never any other dogs around when he does.
When I was breeding Chesapeake Bay Retrievers and had both bitch and male, I lived on a 10 acre property way out in the country in Oregon. My property was surrounded by BLM (government forest land, thousands of acres), a river, and the closest neighbors with dogs were a mile away at least.
Still, males came from miles away when my bitch was in heat. And, although Chesapeakes don't like to roam...they are a stay at home breed, I bet my male made a few trips himself when I thought it wasn't heat season. At times when most females go into heat, I caged him, not trusting him to stay inside a fenced yard (dig, jump, climb, runs out if anybody opens gate).
You really ought to fence your yard, even if you don't neuter, it will be easier and safer for both of you.
Hollie
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surfone
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13#
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(Date Posted:06/11/2006 3:21 PM)
Maybe I ought to fence my yard but I'm moving soon. I'll leave it to the new owners to build a fence.
Until then, as I said, Nitro's on leash at all times.
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Anonymity is not a bad thing. We use it in the very highest expression of the freedom that seperates our country from so many others, and in fact guarantees our freedoms as citizens of these great United States: Voting. -- author unknown
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Schnowzerz
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14#
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Registered:06/10/2006
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(Date Posted:06/11/2006 3:41 PM)
Well, my mini Max is five months old, and once he turns six months old, he is being neutered. Unless you plan on breeding or showing your dog there is no sense in having him intact. Males tend to acquire bad habits, and that namely means marking in your house. The benefits to neutering outweigh anything else. I don't get the 'he won't be whole' argument I hear all the time. Even if you fence your dog, he will still smell a bitch in season, will want to go after her, find her, at whatever costs. That is torturous to a horny male dog! Not to mention he may decide to bark and whine constantly, much to your neighbor's chagrin. So, in my pet owner opinion, spaying and neutering is the only way to go. My bitch was spayed at six months also.
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swlabr
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15#
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Registered:03/25/2006
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(Date Posted:06/11/2006 11:01 PM)
This might be a guy thing but, IMHO, don't do it! You wanted a male dog right? Of course their is a double standard. Muffin is spayed.
Buddy's advocate.
Johnny O.
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MsBritmor
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16#
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(Date Posted:06/11/2006 11:13 PM)
Reply to : swlabr
This might be a guy thing but, IMHO, don't do it! You wanted a male dog right? Of course their is a double standard. Muffin is spayed. Buddy's adovacte. Johnny O.
Sorry, but any blanket statements about (not) neutering boys is definitely a guy thing<G>
Some males do very well intact. They are very well-behaved and never cause a moment's grief.... or maybe only briefly at some point early on in their lives and then they get "their heads put on straight" and grow up into great dogs.
And then there are the others.... and some of these others are owned by people who just have no clue what to do with these dogs. Neutering gives these owners a slight edge which might help them live with these dogs in a reasonably happy fashion. And if there is any question as to whether or not a dog should be neutered, it is always better to be on the safe side and neuter so as to avoid behavior problems down the line. Once male dogs get into some of those possible bad male behavior/habits, they can be almost impossible to break.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Karen Brittan
Britmor Schnauzers
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
-Author Unknown-
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sweetestgirlever
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17#
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Score:116
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Registered:11/16/2005
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 12:12 AM)
Reply to : swlabr
This might be a guy thing but, IMHO, don't do it! You wanted a male dog right? Ofcourse their is a double standard. Muffin is spayed.
Looking at this post, and noting that as a female I am replying to a male comment, I have a funny little antedote. When I was a child, we had a small male dog that my parents decided not to neuter. Now, this dog was a mutt, and the gentlest thing. Not an aggressive bone in his body, although every now and again he would disappear, and I would go track him down at a neighbours. I was about 12-13 yrs old at the time and I asked my dad, why didn't we just neuter him, so he wouldn't go avisiting! My dad's reply was that the puppies would not be OUR problem, so why bother...now being the kid that I was and am, I replied...so...if I get pregnant...the guy doesn't have to worry b/c I'm the female and will be responsible for the kid? Next thing I remember, that dog was in for an operation 
Sometimes, it's all a matter of perspective!
Marg
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merrymann
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18#
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Registered:07/26/2005
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 12:24 AM)
Reply to : sweetestgirlever
Reply to : swlabrThis might be a guy thing but, IMHO, don't do it! You wanted a male dog right? Ofcourse their is a double standard. Muffin is spayed.Looking at this post, and noting that as a female I am replying to a male comment,
We had a mutt for about 14 years (Fluff, my daughter named him; I still think he sounds like a cat!) and he was never neutered. He was never aggressive, never marked in the house and never tried to hump anyone or thing. This was pure luck. Fluff was the sweetest dog you could ever want. So, what was my feeling about neutering my Ditto when I got him? When he was 7 months old, I had him neutered. By that time he was trying to show me who was the boss around here and it wasn't going to be him! I'm sure it was the best thing I could have done for him and me too.With all the positive reasons to spay/neuter, I can't think of one reason not to when you're not a breeder. There are just too many unwanted dogs in this country today for a backyard breeder to add more. No matter how cute you think your dog is, or how smart it is, etc. etc. unless you're a breeder who knows what you are doing and have homes for puppies, spay/neuter is the right way to go.
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GMann
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Schnowzerz
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19#
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Registered:06/10/2006
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 3:50 AM)
Well, I don't get the 'he's a male, he needs his nuts' argument. Neither does my husband. We owned a male intact Westie and he was loveable, sweet, funny, etc..but get him near another male dog...ack!! Willy did lift his leg in the house, and he usually did it when he thought I wasn't looking, or when I wasn't home. They are smart.  I just don't see the reason to have a dog that, if he did get loose, could indeed impregnate a bitch in season, thereby creating more unwanted dogs. If you have no intention of breeding the dog with another Schnauzer, (and hopefully for the right reasons, not for $) why does the dog need his testicles? The dog doesn't care. He won't know the difference that they are gone. Sounds like a personal thing, rather than what is best for the dog to me.
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swlabr
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20#
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Registered:03/25/2006
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 4:48 PM)
Yeah, I really don't like to reply to my own comments but... my parents had a family dog when we lived in Manhattan named Thor, part German Shep part Goffer (i.e. Collie), a 55-60 pounder. Was never altered. From what I can remember, he was a great guard dog, and much aggressive around non-family members and some other dogs, he also got a little crazy when he picked up a scent, and my father even let him get his "dog day", with the consent of the master and, of course, the female once in Morningside Park. But guess what? other than those traits, not a problem at all. A pretty good friend all in all. R.I.P. Thor.
My wife had a similar dog mix when she was young, also not chopped, and she claims also never to have had any real problems with unwanted or inappropiate behaivor at all, except he didn't care for baths or having his nails cut.
So really, how much trouble can a well raised intact miniture schanauzer be. The best argument for neutering to me is "the slightly easier way out". Once again, good luck Buddy.
Johnny O.
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MsBritmor
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21#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 7:48 PM)
Reply to : swlabr
So really, how much trouble can a well raised intact miniture schanauzer be.
You cannot even begin to imagine. Obviously, the problem is generally due to the owner's inability to be alpha or consistent with training, but that is the entire point! Just as all dogs are not equal, so it is true with owners and their training. I cannot tell you how many people buy a puppy because it was the first in the litter to come up to them and get in their face.... "it picked MEEEEE". Newsflash.... most alpha puppy in the litter. And those dogs often end up in rescue because the owners are incapable of handling such a dominant (and often intelligent) dog.
I cannot even begin to tell you how many phone calls, emails, and posts I answer from people who are having problems with their dogs (I am on several message boards and email lists). Think about this.... what is the number one reason most people begin posting on a message board? Believe me, it is not to say "howdy". They are having either health or behavioral problems with their dog.
Neutering a male early on before those juices get going and bad habits are firmly entrenched will help many an owner. By the time they throw up their hands and realize they are in over their heads, it is too late for the poor dog. Just a day or two ago I was contacted by someone who had a dog they didn't want to neuter (poor baby.... mostly the husband, by the way), and woman did want to breed the dog, but she was tired of her house smelling like a urinal, and if the dog didn't stop, it was going to be dumped into rescue. What would YOU have told that woman? (A male who has been bred, by the way, has a greater risk of marking in the house.)
You men just need to cross your legs and get real.
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Karen Brittan
Britmor Schnauzers
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
-Author Unknown-
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lsc32953
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22#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 9:12 PM)
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Gayle420
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23#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 10:23 PM)
Reply to : MsBritmor
Reply to : swlabrSo really, how much trouble can a well raised intact miniture schanauzer be.You cannot even begin to imagine. Obviously, the problem is generally due to the owner's inability to be alpha or consistent with training, but that is the entire point! Just as all dogs are not equal, so it is true with owners and their training. I cannot tell you how many peoplebuy a puppy because itwas the first in the litter tocomeup to them and get in their face.... "it picked MEEEEE". Newsflash.... most alpha puppy in the litter. And those dogs often end up in rescue because the owners are incapable of handling such a dominant (and often intelligent) dog.I cann
I am one of those people! Buddy was the most playful friendly pup of the litter, and I wanted a male dog as I only had females in the past. Well, he's still playful and I love him to pieces, but wow, what a surprise he turned out to be. He's the most stubborn little guy I ever met. But so loving and so attached to me. However, he's obviously stressed now that he's getting older. He's suddenly showing an aggressive side that I don't like at all; and I have to keep him in line constantly. It's only been since he's starting marking (outside) and humping the cat that he seems so aggressive. I kept his neutering appt. for next week and I know this is the right thing to do. I want him to be playful, but I don't want him stressed and horny all the time. (sorry, no other way to phrase it)
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Gayle
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westowl
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24#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 10:32 PM)
Oh... poor cat.
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swlabr
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25#
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Registered:03/25/2006
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 10:43 PM)
You have to pay a little extra for a female. Hey, if you can't handle a male don't buy one. And now for the double standard for altering your female, compared to males the issues are:
1.) females have far less health problems.
2.) spaying does not alter their personalities at all.
non-issues:
1.) if you ain't gonna breed them for show or profit.
2.) unwanted pregenancies, however, in todays emasculate male society its vertually an impossibility anyway.
3.) there time of the month.
now for the males neutering:
1.) drastically changes their biology and therefore their personality and a giant primary reason to live. Poor fellas become trans-sexualls, just plain messed up.
2.) your lose the apha-schanauzer action at the dog park and all kinds of other natural aggressive behavior that makes a guy a guy.
3.) I'm not gonna push the envelope here.
RUN BUDDY RUN !
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jacksons_mom
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26#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2006 11:41 PM)
Ummm i wasn't really sure it was worth replying to you but this was the catalyst:
"your lose the apha-schanauzer action at the dog park and all kinds of other natural aggressive behavior that makes a guy a guy"
Says who? My boy continues to do his darndest to be alpha at the park and everywhere else. He doesn't take sh*t from anyone, pup or person (except for perhaps me, when i force him to)
His personality was not drastically changed at all. He's the same cute sweet, somewhat dominant pup he always does (only now I don't have to worry about him "marking" when he goes to someone else's house)
And sorry, I don't buy that it's his "primary reason to live" --maybe years ago when dogs lived in the wild and were not domesticated. But now they are part of families --their family is their pack --and that is their reason to live.
I think this may be a classic example of anthropomorphism
"unnecessary sentimentality of projecting "human" feelings on to animals...."
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surfone
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27#
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Rank:none
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Registered:05/24/2006
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(Date Posted:06/13/2006 12:47 AM)
"I cannot tell you how many people?uy a puppy because it?as the first in the litter to?ome?p to them and get in their face.... "it picked MEEEEE".?Newsflash.... most alpha puppy in the litter"
I had to laugh at this, because it's the truth.
My own life example: When my ex-hub and i went to pick out an aussie, I was leaning towards a quieter male pup. But he wanted the puppy that was pushing it's way around our legs, and the his sibs out of the way, including the dog I wanted. And it was a case of anthropomophising. He personally identiifed with the puppy because it was obviously getting more food at the dish than his sibs LOL and my ex had been a chubby child once. We did not end up with the pup I wanted, but his choice.
Guess who wound up raising the dog? Me. He was neutered and in general a very bright dog but still had dominant tendencies. My ex would follow the dog around while he 'walked' him LOL Totally at cross purposes but fortunantly, the dog responded to my commands. I got the dog in the divorce and I think he was better off for it but I'm biased.
The point is, if the dog's got that personality that wants to lead, you can't back down no matter how sweet they are to you or how cute they are. Did neutering help? Well, I don't really think so because my poor dog had so much of his early life spent in confusion about who was in charge except when it was just he and I.
OTOH, I've mentioned a freinds male schnauzer who's intact, five years old, and doesn't exhibit aggressive or dominant behavioral issues most of the time. The only time he misbehaves is off leash and that's his owners fault IMHO ( though I'd not say so to his face LOL ). I think the reason for that though is that his owner IS clearly the alpha personality. There's no way he'd take growling from his dog or snapping or any of that. He told me his dog growled once at him around the age of one. He backhanded the dog across the room. I don't care for his method, but it worked in that the dog has never done it again. He's a total lap baby in general.
And, I might be reading it wrong, but I think the gent arguing against neutering ( run, buddy, run! ) is having some fun at everyone's expense Slightly true swlabr?
Whatever the decision there's always consequences. Dogs don't know right without being taught what IS right. I don't think a male dog is damaged by being neutered, but he can be damaged either way if his owner is an inconsistent teacher.
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Schnowzerz
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28#
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Registered:06/10/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/13/2006 2:19 AM)
I give up trying to rationalize with someone who is so set in his ways.
Here is an excellent article:
http://www.apbc.org.uk/article4.htm
Edited to add these other FACTS...
1. Behavior problems such as roaming and aggression are generally reduced.
2. Sexual behavior by males, including mounting and riding directed toward people and/or objects, is usually reduced or eliminated.
3. Attraction toward female dogs in heat is usually reduced or eliminated.
4. Medical problems associated with the testicles in males are prevented from occurring. These problems include testicular infections, cancer, and torsion (painful rotation of the testicle which causes collapse of vessels, leading to severe swelling and bruising).
5. Prostatic disease, common in older male dogs, is less likely to occur in castrated animals.
6. A castrated dog does not contribute to the pet overpopulation problem.
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swlabr
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29#
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Registered:03/25/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/13/2006 4:30 PM)
If your dog has a dominant personality then neutering may not change this at all. If your dog is the same after neutering as before what have you accomplished. You need to start out with the proper training and reinforcing of positive behavior, this will accomplish much more than neutering. I have had unneutered male dogs and they never marked in my house or anyone else's house, it is all in the training. If you have a dog male or female fixed or unfixed it is your responsibility as the owner to make sure thay are not out running loose, or constantly pestering other dogs when out for a walk or at the dog park. You are the owner and master if if your dog has behavorial problems it is up to you to work on fixing the problem through proper training by yourself or a professional. Dogs are like children without proper discipline you end up wtih a brat. Most people already have their minds made up when they pruchase a dog if they are going to spay/neuter or not, and you will find people who will line up on either side of the issue. Basically you will lean toward the decision that is right for you, just don't think that neutering is a miracle cure for an undisciplined dog.
Rose
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sylvyrring
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30#
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Rank:none
Score:95
Posts:95
Registered:01/16/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/13/2006 5:16 PM)
swlabr
Very well said !!!!!
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