minimageditor
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1#
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(Date Posted:09/21/2006 1:38 AM)
Reply to : pickled peppers
1. It seems to me that as with most human activities, dog showing canbe very political.What are some of the majorcons/negatives thatgo along with conformation?
Oh my now do you really want to open this can of worms??? 
Karen has had much more time in conformation than I have (that is NOT a comment on age, Karen - LOL) and has done much of it herself as I understand. I have been "playing the game" about 14 years now on a small basis (5 conformation champs and 1 obedience champ now doing rally). Mostly I have used a professional handler tho I do show my own dogs as puppies.
Your assumption about politics is right on! Here are some of the things I have observed:
1) Not infrequently clubs hire judges that are favorable to their members; hence, anyone coming in from a different region *possibly* has a disadvantage.
2) It can frequently be heard around the ring at any show - "Oh - that judge is a ______________ (fill in name of any popular professional handler) judge!" Meaning if that handler walks into that judge's ring, that handler WILL win - regardless. Of course that is not always true, but it does happen.
3. Judges seem to put up "faces" rather than dogs at times.
4. Not infrequently do breeder-judges seem to put up their friends or people who have "done business" with them in the past (bought pups, bred to their stud dogs, etc.)
5. Certain dogs that are acceptable dogs but nothing outstanding may be "showcased" across the country because their owner has mega-bucks, while other dogs that may be significantly better are known only in their regions because their owners do not have money to campaign them.
6. Sometimes clubs make rules/vote on things that are advantageous to their board members and their dogs - making it that much more difficult on the "novices".
7. One particular item that has always been a bone of contention with me is Sweepstakes. This is a puppies-only competition (usually up to 1 year in age and the pup cannot have done any major winning). Rules swing from one end to the other on whether or not professional handlers are allowed to show in Sweeps. My personal opinion is that they should NOT be allowed. Sweeps should be the place where novices can learn & practice and enjoy some success without the threat of the professionals who win most of the regular classes anyway. But it seems that there can be a certain amount of greed involved when people who rarely show their own dogs and pay a handler think that they MUST "win everything"....
2. What is the average financial cost and time commitment to finish a dog to his championship assuming he will be professionally handled?Thanks in advance!
I'm sure this varies from place to place depending on which shows the dog goes to (show entries range from $22 to $28 right now in my area) and how successful the handler is. Handlers set their rates based on stepping in the ring. I believe in CA right now our top handlers in terriers are charging from $100 to $125 to walk in the ring. Additional expenses include a daily fee for boarding, a "bonus" if the dog wins a group placement or Best in Show. Travel expenses (gas food & hotel) are normally split among all clients whose dogs go on a particular trip. But remember that it is not just the handler but all his/her assistants that need to be covered. If the handler strips your dog, that is a charge before you even get to the show ring!
If your dog is very very good and finishes quickly, it's possible that you might get away with a championship for under $2000. Mine have all run between $2500 and $3000 and the last was two years ago, so expenses have gone up since then. All of my dogs took two coats to finish. If you can finish a dog on one coat you will be lucky. Of course, being a winning dog depends on those politics, which other dogs are in the ring and HAVING A GOOD DAY on the days your dog is shown, and the condition that your dog is in.
I would love to handle my own dogs and finish them; but some of us just don't have the grooming and/or handling skills to do it - nor the $$$ to travel around frequently enough to make our faces known so that we can compete with the professionals. It can be done - but you might end up paying more in the long run to finish your dog yourself than to use a professional.
Hope this helps. I'm sure Karen can add more.
Tania
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Tania S. Kidd
Editor/Publisher
The Mini Magazine
www.simplyschnauzer.net
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MsBritmor
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2#
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(Date Posted:09/21/2006 2:55 AM)
Not a lot to add here as I was eating supper the first time I read this post, and in the meantime, Tania put up her post.
Yes, I have seen what I believe to be the occasional politics, but I think many handlers, the good ones, are familiar enough with a judge's preferences that they KNOW which dogs to show to them to increase their likelihood of winning. We all have things we like and dislike in a dog; judges do, too.
Except for three occasions, I've always shown my own dogs and could never understand the thrill in watching someone else show one's dogs. (Finally got to experience that when Katie started doing agility! Now I understand.)
One needs to determine how involved they want to be in the showing of one's dogs. I did it myself, and kept my expenses down by camping in my van on most of my out-of-town trips, or I traveled with a friend in another breed and we split expenses (and often camped out together). She's as cheap as I am... LOL! Traveling with a friend makes showing lots more fun! It can get pretty boring hanging out all weekend in a strange place with only a dog to talk to.
Now if one just doesn't have the skills or the time to show, one does need to have a handler. They can even strip out the dog for you if you want to go that route. Bye, dog... see you when your championship is finished. Your call as to how involved (or not) you wish to be. A handler can do it all from start to finish, but you will pay for that. Kurt Garmaker once said to expect it to cost around $5,000 to finish a dog.
Once I had a bit of change in my pocket and decided to special a dog I had finished the end of February. I traveled and showed him as often as I could, and I quit early the following June. Tag finished #20 that year, and was beat out for #1 BS by his half-brother by about 30 pts. If I had kept going, we might have been #1 BS that year. It cost me $5000 for a little over three months of showing.
I've done my share of winning over the years.... getting a Best in Show, and on 2-3 occasions beating out the #1 dog(s) in the country that year. I can't really complain and I do think that most claims of POLITICS are often nothing more than sour grapes. Show most judges a good, well-groomed dog, and you just might win! Ya, I've also seen some really stupid judges along the way, but I just never show to them again.
After going to a few shows this past year and seeing (and hearing) what is being put up, I am starting to get the itch to show again. I think our breed is in serious trouble, and people need to be reminded what a good dog is supposed to be. Movement seems to be seriously lacking, and no one seems to know what a good rear is anymore. I've seen bad toplines and no necks or angulation. Maybe it is different elsewhere, but this is what I've seen in the Midwest. YIKES!
More cons: One MUST be able to groom, and groom well. There is a LOT of equipment to lug around, and standing on one's feet for hours can be very hard on the back, particularly if it isn't in A+ condition to begin with. I got pretty dissillusioned with my bad back and running into so many sourpusses.... no, NASTY people at the shows the last few years I was showing. I'm a firm believer that if one is no longer having fun at something that it is time to do something else..... and so I did. Now, however.... like I said.... that itch is wanting to be scratched again a bit.
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Karen Brittan
Britmor Schnauzers
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
-Author Unknown-
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pickled peppers
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3#
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Rank:none
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Registered:07/18/2006
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(Date Posted:09/21/2006 8:56 PM)
Tania & Karen,
I know you both are very busy ladies, so I really appreciate the time you took to answer my questions.
The information you provided helps confirm to me that for now my participation in dog shows will continue to be from the sidelines, as I do not have the money required, nor would I be willing to part with my doggies for any length of time.
Your responses also gave me insight to issues I had never thought of before - for example, finishing on one coat vs two. Does this mean that once the dog has finished showing, it no longer needs to be stripped/rolled?
Have a wonderful weekend, and thanks again!
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minimageditor
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4#
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(Date Posted:09/22/2006 12:27 AM)
Reply to : pickled peppers
Tania & Karen,I know you both are very busy ladies,so Ireallyappreciate the time you took to answer my questions.The information you provided helps confirm to methat for nowmy participation in dog shows will continue to be from the sidelines, as I do not have themoney required, nor would I be willing to part with my doggies for any length of time.Your responses also gave me insight to issues I had never thought of before - for example,finishing on one coat vs two.Does this mean that once the dog has finished showing, it no longer needs to be stripped/rolled?Have a wonderful weekend, and thanks again!
The decision on continuing to maintain a show coat is entirely up to you. My personal habit is to take care of it until it is too long to look good, then I clipper my champs, just because I don't have time to keep up stripped coats on dogs I don't show. But I do know other show people who keep those coats maintained all the dogs' lives because they like the look. It's just up to you.
I wanted to mention that sometimes if you have a handler that will work with you and a dog that bonds easily and loves everyone (no separation anxieties) they will allow you to bring the dog home between shows and not board it all the time with them. I have had two dogs that my handler allowed me to keep at home on off weeks when there was no show or when she was going out of state etc. I only had to get the dogs back to her early enough for grooming. Other dogs with more anxiety about leaving home need to stay with the handler to bond so that they will be able to show at their best. But that can save you a little $$$ if you don't board it with the handler the full time.
Another way you can still be involved with your own dog at shows is through rally, obedience, or agility. Each of them is a different training level - at least to my mind - in the same order I wrote them. Rally is a great way to start if your dog has some basic obedience commands under his belt. If he doesn't, you should start with basic obedience. Find a class in your area for any of these events. It's a whole different perspective on competition, less politics unless you get to the highest levels, and .....(drumroll) it's somewhat cheaper. The dogs do not have to be in show coats for these evets, tho you might want your dog to be. That too is up to you.
Tania
--------------------------------------------------------------
Tania S. Kidd
Editor/Publisher
The Mini Magazine
www.simplyschnauzer.net
New - DogShots, Ltd.
Cards & Gifts
www.dogshotsltd.com
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