bernair1
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/03/2012 3:13 PM)
My two cents!! Roll Bar & Harness mandatory.
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fastdonnie
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/04/2012 3:11 PM)
Eventually, everyone is going to have smarten up and get protected. The only thing that would keep me from attending is if the NJ guys won't come back.
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drscope 
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/06/2012 12:54 PM)
Lets keep this thread and discussion on the topic of roll bars and harnesses please.
If you haven't responded to the pole, please do so.
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TheTinman
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 5:17 AM)
I agree. With speeds increasing, this is a no brainer. It needs to be mandatory. Nobody wants to get hurt or have fellow racers injured. Also shows the public that saftey is paramont in a sport with inherent dangers.
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drscope
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 7:23 AM)
OK fellas here's the deal on this poll. The question is if we made it mandatory you had to have a roll bar and a 5 point harness in order to compete in the ECC, would you stay home because of that rule?
I went back and removed 2 votes from the pole. The reasons are this - 1 of those votes was from someone in the UK who probably wouldn't attend the ECC at all, regardless of what rules we did or didn't have.
The other vote was from an unregistered guest. And since they are unregistered we have no way of knowing if they are a serious participant or just an internet looker.
So, to the guy in the UK, if your vote was a serious vote and you are planning on attending, then please vote again!
To the unregistered voter, please register and then vote again if YOU are serious about attending the 2012 ECC.
This is a really important matter and we are trying to keep the decision we make based only on relevant responses.
If this is something we are going to institute this year, we need to get things ironed out and posted soon so everyone has ample time to prepare. Any messing around with the pole simply muddies the waters and slows us down in our decision making. So PLEASE, only respond if the pole is relevant to you attending or not attending.
Also, we have one person who voted yes. BUT I know everyone who has voted in the pole either already has a roll bar or is in favor of having one.
So if YOU voted yes to the pole, but actually meant to vote no, please PM me and we can get your vote changed.
Thank you for your time and attention!
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Deaddredknight
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 7:44 AM)
Why does it have to be 5 point???? You didnt specify 5 point. Most of us have only 4.
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Deaddredknight
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 7:47 AM)
I changed my vote. A 5 point is over kill. Carnigorms only requires 4 point.
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jerm1386
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 12:29 PM)
Drscope and I talked about this last night, and the reason we
chose making it a 5+point rule is this: a 4-point harness omits the
strap between the legs, which is a crucial component for 2 reasons.
First, it can prevent a driver from submarining under the 4-point
harness and, second, it keeps thelap belts in the proper position on
the driver in the event of an impact. Since many of the faster karts tend to have the driver in more of a lay-down position, submarining becomes more of a concern at the high speeds and small crumple zones we're running.
In our 2010 racing season, we had a driver get into an accident and
ended up with bruising on his ribs that took several months to heal
fully because the center strap on his 5-point harness ended up too long and acted like a
4-point harness (the rest of the belts were properly tightened). when he hit a tree stump and came to a very sudden
stop, the lap belts rode up on him and clamped around his ribs. had
his harness been in the proper position, the lap belts would not
have ridden up and would not have bruised his ribs, and he would
have been back to racing with us much sooner.
While we're striving to make the requirements for an ECC kart to be
as close to those of a cairngorm kart as possible, we believe that
mandating a 5 or 6-point harness is an extra step we can take to
keep the event more safe for the drivers if things go wrong on the
hill. If we didn't have an experience resulting in injuries with a
driver whose harness acted like a properly-fitted 4-point, we might
not be as adamant. Another thing we can learn from this event is to
make sure everyone knows how to properly adjust their belts and to
provide external, experienced assistance if possible (which Dan did
in the 2011 ECC).
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jerm1386
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 12:48 PM)
For reference, this is the quote from the cairngorm rulebook: "If the driving position is seated and predominantly upright or slightly reclined, then a four point harness or better must be worn. Drivers in low reclined seating positions will be required to wear five point safety harness or better." they do not specify where the boundary is between 'slightly reclined' and 'low reclined'
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drscope
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 1:55 PM)
The poll simply states "harness".
In my world and background, there is nothing less then a 5 point harness for the reasons Jerm stated above. So earlier when I wrote "5 point harness" it was just basic nature for me to put the "5" in.
The 4 point versus 5 point topic is really an argument for another time, but without a doubt, a 5 point IS the only way to go.
A 4 point harness will not afford the same protection as a 5 point and can actually cause serious injury to the occupant - not to say if they weren’t wearing it they would be any better off after slamming around inside the car or getting ejected. It's just that occupants suffer injury from a 4 point that they don't receive when wearing a 5 point.
All in all the reason for bringing this up is pretty simple. We want the ECC to be THE premier event on the east coast (and the country!). And we are pursuing some options that will help us to get it there.
But if we have a serious injury or any sort of bad press, it can instantly ruin all the hard work which has been done over the last couple of years.
Talks with insurance companies continue and the safety aspect of how we organize things is a key sticking point at the moment keeping us from being able to move forward.
So we are simply trying to see how bad it would hurt our numbers if we needed to make this sort of a rule change.
It may take a few years before we are able to have the type of event that we are working towards. These things take time and once we got things rolling, there are all sorts of agencies and entities that, need to have a say, or need to be told, how we do things so they can all be coordinated.
It’s a major undertaking and we need to make sure we don’t have a big Opps before we get things wrapped up. So implementing more strict safety rules early will help us to move forward.
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drscope
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 1:55 PM)
Steve do you still have a date conflict for this years event?
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Deaddredknight
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/10/2012 9:01 PM)
I thought you wanted to keep the topic on Harnesses????? Is the ECC on the 7th???? If it is always the first Sunday than I always have a conflict!! If I come or not depends on several factors in determining which event I go to! Time availability. The ECC actually requires less time for me if other peeps are generous enough to haul my car. $$$ availability it cost way more to go to ECC! Weather or not I have to change my harness to 5 point!!!
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WalkingWounded
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/15/2012 8:53 PM)
As much as I love a 5 point, I don't think a 4 should be enough to keep anyone from coming.
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Deaddredknight
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/16/2012 8:19 AM)
Its not just the Harness, Its what it attaches to...... I will have to redesign the frame to accomidate an attachment point, which means more weight!!! I am upright enough that any front end collision will not cause me to slip under the belts. In addition I have almost a foot of crumple zone Between my feet and the front of my car.
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Deaddredknight
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/16/2012 8:23 AM)
To Jerm and the guy that bruised his ribs.... Do you really think he would of been racing sooner with his nuts in his stomach???? I would rather have bruised ribs that smashed nuts!!!!
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drscope
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:04/16/2012 9:04 AM)
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LEADFOOT_LARRY
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Re:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:06/08/2012 1:44 PM)
So I'm gonna ask the dumb question! What are the specific requirements of "rollbar"? And I gotta ask with all this mandating why haven't you mandated Full-face helmets? or did u and I missed it? Because the harness and the rollbar did nothing to protect Rodgers face last year!! Financially its been a terrible year for me so I doubt if Im gonna be able to race (not that what I've done at the ECC the last 2 yrs could be considered racing!!) I need to build an entirely new car! But, I do plan to be in attendance to help with the behind the scenes stuff, like helping all you guys & gals in your 5-point harnesses line up! Oh and if you decide to put up a little pie chart for "bruised ribs vs crushed nuts" I agree with Deaddread I'll take bruised ribs!
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drscope
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:06/08/2012 4:33 PM)
I'm not so sure I would consider what Roger had as a roll bar. It was more like a show bar.
Muffler tube ain't good at protecting you in a roll over situation.
As for the helmet rule, it HAS been changed to FULL FACE only. This is something we wanted to do in 2010, but since Paul was coming and he only had an open face, we didn't feel at the time it would be right to tell HIM he couldn't race.
But times have changed, speeds have increased and we HAVE to think about safety before someone gets taken out in a helicopter or a bag.
We are working on rules and we have one more meeting to get through before we post the final rules for the event. Hopefully we will have them posted before the end of this month.
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rogsdodges
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RE:Would a mandatory Roll Bar and Harness rule keep you from attending the 2012 ECC?
(Date Posted:06/17/2012 7:15 PM)
Why would any MISFIT need a harness OR a rollbar? You guys can't corner any
faster than 5 mph anyway. My rollbar, or 'muffler tube' did exactly what it was supposed to do, which is:
absorb impact energy. Sure, I faceplanted as well, that just added excitement, and
would have happened no matter WHAT roll bar or harness I had, in that particular situation.
If it's your time to bite it, it's gonna happen no matter what. Keep in mind, also,
if the NJ guys aren't there you won't receive much assistance other than to be filmed.
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