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tamarastern
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1#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 8:04 PM)
more clues:
jack always runs into fires= the ash around "jacob's" house
far fetched notion:
could jack's father never have died, it was some sort of trick/trap
to get him on that plane....empty coffin?
could sayid be a terrorist who had a bomb in the empty coffin?
I dont know how all this ties together...
but i know these clues are accurate
sorry, over zealous...excited)
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baked_scrod
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2#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 8:18 PM)
The show's creators have already said there is no connection between any of the castaways before they got on the plane.
. . . yeah, I do think they're lying sacks of #$@#$#@$.
But this is good stuff - the Losties are an unplanned intrusion, but suppose the DHARMA bums were all prisoners? They wouldn't let Juliet leave. Mikhail: "I thought you were in Canada." Suppose they were offered these great jobs to remove them from society, like Ben's loser dad. They may have been doing actual work, but back home their next of kin have been notified and think they're dead.
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"Do you really believe there"s some kind of devil out there?"
"Of course. I"ve SEEN his food cake."
- Mystery Science Theater 3000
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tamarastern
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3#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 8:28 PM)
they wouldnt have been connected in the sense that none of them had to know eachother at all for this scenario to hold true.
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tamarastern
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4#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 8:31 PM)
remember how ben said they would be killed if they tried to escape?
well, hahah,
thats what HAPPENS when prisoners try to escape
also-
they dont KNOW whats happening.
I think its an experimental process (hence the dharma whidmore connection)
also-
we do NOT know that what naomi said was true about people thinking they are dead at home!
remember?
shes supposed to possibly be a LIAR!
also-
Penny did NOT seem overwhelmed by the fact that desmond was alive as somebody who thought their beloved had been dead for years may have been.
...SHE SEEMED LIKE SOMEBODY WHO WAS CONCERNED AFTER "CONNECTION" HAD BEEN LOST FOR A FEW MONTHS...
like she KNEW he was there, but was worried since the communication had been down for a few months
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clight01
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5#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 8:43 PM)
Look up Jeremy Bentham on google and it's very interesting. You'll find he belived in Utilitarianism which could be what the others are about and also what Locke was looking for when he joined that commune that was growing drugs. The pictures of Jeremy Bentham also look very similar to Jacob.
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tamarastern
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6#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 9:04 PM)
SPEAKING OF THE HIPPIE COMMUNE:
omfg.
people
THOSE WERE THE SAME PEOPLE AS WERE ON THE ISLAND WITH BEN
AND THE HIGHWAY LOCKE WAS ON WHEN HE PICKED UP THE HITCHER LOOKED JUST LIKE THE ONE ON WHICH BEN WAS BORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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tamarastern
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7#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 9:12 PM)
OMFGOMGOFOMFGFG
LOSING MY MIND
this is the undercovercop who john locke brought to the "hippie commune"
in a Geronimo jackson shirt
....and charlie and hurley found a geronimo jackson
tape in the hutch
.... AND LOOK AT THE PIC OF GERONIMO JACKSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
look VERY closely...
standing tallest in the back: A young TOM
DIRECTLY BELOW HIM: ETHAN ROM
blonde: BONNIE
MY MIND=BLOWN
.....AND LOOK AT THE FLOATING "DOOR" BESIDE THEM IN THE PICTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ai2301
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8#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 9:18 PM)
Reply to : tamarastern
ben is in the coffin!!!!!!!!!ben=JeremyBENthamThe island on Lost is a panoptic prisonnote how everything is circular....the hatches, the underwater hatch)This was cleverly referenced in tonights episode,the name on the newspaper clipping that jack was crying over was JEREMY BENTHAMwho originated the idea of a panoptic prison...a panopticonbentham also speaks alot on the theme of "free will" and crime...):"The Panopticon ("all-seeing") functioned as a round-the-clock surveillance machine. Its design ensured that no prisoner could ever see the 'inspector' who conducted surveillance from the privileg
Interesting but what I'm seeing is "Je---- -antham". The letter you're saying is an E definately looks like an A to me. Also if Ben were going to change his name it would be silly to leave "Ben" in the name. But the number one reason I don't believe it's Ben is due to the fact that Jack passes on the offer to view the body. If Ben survives and gets back to the states and Jack had read that he'd die, IMO he would definately want to see the body as proof that it was really him- no question.
IMO the man in the coffin is Locke. When he dies, Jack realizes how right he was and feels terrible guilt that he got them off the island. Perhaps Locke had a name change after the rescue for the sake of privacy.
As far as the comments about his father, I'm thinking that due to the fact Jack saw his father on the island, he's not totally convinced he's dead and when he gets wasted he totally loses reality and makes comments as if things are the way they were, thus his comment about "don't feel sorry for me..." He knows people think he's a little nutty;-)
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tamarastern
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9#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 9:36 PM)
It looks like J_____ __entham
and Jeremy Bentham has TONS of significance with the whole
LOST theme.
Its definitely not the first time hes been mentioned,
basically the WHOLE LOST ISLAND is a Benathamian Penopticon!
Its almost a dead give away.
also-
I dont think they would have anything as simple as "jack being nutty"
happen....unless of course jack IS christian and he was a CRIMINALLY INSANE PATIENT
I have not worked out those kinks yet,
but I'd bet good money that its jeremy BENtham on that clipping and BEN in the box
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lost_in_iowa
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10#
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From: USA 
Registered:03/31/2007
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 9:47 PM)
Do you have a link to the website "Dark UFO"? I've seen references to it. Humpys is a great one too!!
Thanks!!
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tamarastern
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11#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 9:51 PM)
GERONIMO JACKSON:
could the afro guy be in disguise?
could it be richard????
or
THE REAL HENRY GALE??!?!!?!?!!?!
.......omFG OMFG!!!
THIS JUST CAME TO ME RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!
THE CODE IN THE FINALE,
BONNIE SAID IT WAS "PROGRAMMED BY A MUSICIAN"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
good vibrations!!!
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ai2301
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12#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 10:33 PM)
Reply to : tamarastern
It looks like J_____ __enthamand Jeremy Bentham has TONS of significance with the wholeLOST theme.Its definitely not the first time hes been mentioned,basically the WHOLE LOST ISLAND is a Benathamian Penopticon!Its almost a dead give away.also-I dont think they would have anything as simple as "jack being nutty"happen....unless of course jack IS christian and he was a CRIMINALLY INSANE PATIENTI have not worked out those kinks yet,but I'd bet good money that its jeremy BENtham on that clipping and BEN in the box
For reference I've enlarged the letter I'm seeing as an "a". Doesn't look anything like an "e" to me. I don't think it matters as I agree with the Bentham connection to the show, just not that it's Ben in the casket. If anything I think the name is just a reference to a historical figure ala Desmond, Locke and Rousseau. Should Ben get off the island and not face some sort of charges back in the states as well. The BEN-BEn connection is just too simple IMO- we'll have to agree to disagree and perhaps find out in a year or so;-)
And why would Jack get despondant over seeing that Ben had died?
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l115/mfridge/lostnewspaper.jpg
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tamarastern
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13#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 10:48 PM)
because Ben might after all not be the bad guy.
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tamarastern
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14#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 10:51 PM)
also,
jeremy BENtham makes so much sense its pretty incredible.
furthermore-
its a LESS obvious connection
than all of the others whose names are ACTUALLY THE SAME AS THE PHILOSOPHERS WHOM THEY MIRROR.
AND LASTLY-
If the letter is an A,
which I dont think it is.....it could have been a newspaper
typo to throw us off of what is so glaringly obvious.
its jeremy bentham
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tamarastern
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15#
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 10:54 PM)
", just not that it's Ben in the casket. If anything I think the name is just a reference to a historical figure ala Desmond, Locke and Rousseau"
well,
if you know anything about the philosophers themselves and the philosophies which they followed,
you'll know that yes...
the references are VERY specific to each character
and BEN mirrors JEREMY BENTHAM
pretty much TO A TEE.
the jeremy bentham is DEFINITELY ben.
whether or not its him in the box or just a trick,
I guess we dont know yet.
but its definitely meant to look like jeremy bentham in the clipping ,
the island is DEFINITELY by DEFINITION
a PENOPTICON(invented by bentham)
and the bentham character is ben.
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parapadme
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16#
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Registered:05/23/2007
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 11:13 PM)
The thought that Jack is Jacob doesn't make sense to me... how? And, the pictures.... Jacob looks more like Tom than Jack.... especially the chin.... it protrudes out much more than Jack's does.
I think there are some people who aren't alive... maybe not ghosts, but immortal? Just like it's been said... Richard hasn't aged since Ben was a kid!
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RAVINIR1
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17#
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Rank:none
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Registered:05/23/2007
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(Date Posted:05/23/2007 11:29 PM)
Hey everyone, first post here, but I'll give it a whirl. Being as it is that I was among the many who felt "cheated" last night at the direction Cuse and Lidenhof (sp) are taking, I am glad to have stumbled upon this community that has some very thoughtful insight as to what the heck is happening on this island!
1) Charlie-to start off...WHY? I mean...these guys have ALWAYS been 'hinting" at stuff happening in the show, but it never really does. Desmond has these premonitions, and Charlie believes him, does the heroic thing and dives to his doom....but wait....There are PEOPLE down here as well? Desmond didnt "see" that happening? C'mon...his premonitions have been pretty spot on the whole time....I mean, its like he KNEW the whole time what was going to happen and just went along for the ride....Im not too happy about this turn of events...Charlie was part of the heart and soul of the show, one of the ORIGINAL cast members, and now hes gone....alas
2) I read in some thread that some of you think that the "forward flashes" we saw last night were of the premonitioin's that Desmond sees. I AGREE....if they killed Charlie, THIS has to be true as well, because if the show PICKS UP in the future next season, OR tries to fill in the GAP of what happened up until those "forward flashes", they will effectively LOSE the audience...I for one do not like that "gimmick" and will not be on board if this is the case. DESMOND premonitions I can swallow, as it will be a good point for S4 to start.
3) Jack= Jacob.....wow.....two words....NO & NO....there I said it....LOOK AT THE PICTURE PEOPLE....that is JOHN LOCKE sitting in that chair....JOHN LOCKE= JACOB....why else would WALT be there when John was clearly dead...telling him he has "work to do"....I think that this whole time...Locke has been in the house...contained in some way by the ISLAND (remember...he doesnt want to leave) and he's "directing" traffic through Ben about what to do with the island....and REMEMBER at the end of last nights episode...JOHN says to JACK...."You are not supposed to do this"....THINK PEOPLE...
4) JOHN LOCKE IS FROM THE FUTURE....as Jacob....RE-LIVING his past on the island...dictating how events take place....its Lockes' FUTURE SELF that is Jacob....look in a BABY DICTIONARY....under JACOB...one of the nicknames listed is JOHN.....He couldnt call himself John to Ben...because Ben would meet his past self and know who he was...so He goes by Jacob...and he cant directly talk to himself, or make himself known, because that could endanger his own future, so he KNOWS how events need to be played out..
5) Kate- seriously...can we just kill her and be done with it....HOW STUPID IS SHE....Of course Sawyer was trying to protect her....for someone who we are supposed to believe can elude the law for years, and can track almost as well as Locke, she comes off as blatantly ignorant when it comes to people. I really am sick of her.
6) And lastly...YAY for Hurley....about time we see the big guy get his just desserts (pun intended).
Comments welcome!
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He who does not seek the light, may not bask in the glory of his illumination- WHERE is this from?
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spaztastic93
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18#
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Registered:02/20/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 12:07 AM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
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www.lost.eu/32f5c
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tamarastern
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19#
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 12:14 AM)
Actually-
JACOB LOOKS MOST LIKE
THE ACTUAL JEREMY BENTHAM
THE REAL JEREMY BENTHAM'S MUMMY...
HMMMMMM
CLOTHING LOOKS SIMILAR AND JACOB IS "SITTING"
ALOT LIKE THE REAL JEREMY BENTHAM........
JACOB
 
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tamarastern
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20#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 12:17 AM)
and people
PLEASE read about Jeremy Bentham and the Penopticon to understand why ben IS jeremy bentham
it makes 10000000% sense.
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tamarastern
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21#
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 12:26 AM)
Oh and people.....
Desmond is not psychic,
his premonitions are not absolute.
They are indicative of possible outcomes of FATE based on
patterns of outcome.
PEOPLE
HAVE WE FORGOTTEN THAT DAVID HUME WROTE "OF MIRACLES"?
hahahah?
DAVID HUME
was a follower of the thought that we CANNOT BELIEVE IN THAT WHICH IS NOOT RATIONAL.
He could not PROVE that miracles can never happen,
"But he developed an argument to show something a little different, which he believed would be of considerable consequence:
that is, that it is never rational to believe that miracles have occurred. Hume was concerned, then, with an epistemological question of what it is and is not rational to believe, rather than a metaphysical question about what sort of events can happen in our sort of world."
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ai2301
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22#
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Rank:none
Score:256
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Registered:05/23/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 12:29 AM)
Reply to : tamarastern
"the island is DEFINITELY by DEFINITIONa PENOPTICON(invented by bentham)and the bentham character is ben.
The island may be a penopticon but the island and/or Dharama Initiative was not founded or created by Ben so there really isn't a parallel there when it comes to Bentham as the creator of the penopticons and Ben and the creation of the Island.
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tamarastern
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23#
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Rank:none
Score:55
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Registered:05/19/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 12:37 AM)
Reply to : ai2301
Reply to : tamarastern"the island is DEFINITELY by DEFINITIONa PENOPTICON(invented by bentham)and the bentham character is ben.The island may be a penopticon but the island and/or Dharama Initiative was not founded or createdby Ben so there really isn't a parallel there IMO.
a) You dont know who created the island or why it was created.
b) the jeremy bentham/penopticon bit is GLARINGLY obvious lol
um have you not noticed that they are under ONSTANT SURVEILLANCE and that EVRYTHING IS CIRCULAR lol????
c) the island may not be being used for what it was intended for and Ben has adopted the radical mission of the jeremy bentham character.
people
PLEASE know about the philosophies of the people of whom we speak.
its IMPERATIVE for you to comprehend the philosophers to understand all of these connections.
sorry, but it truly is.
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AndinoVagino
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24#
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Rank:none
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Registered:05/24/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 1:07 AM)
This is my theory and I'm sticking to it.
a.I think the Jeremy Bentham character is actually 'Jacob', not Ben. Ben carries out Jacob's will, and is like a manager, recruted at a young age by 'Jacob'.
b.The "Others" are undead, or immortal when on the island. How did patch-eye gather the strength to swim to the outside of the the underwater station to detonate the grenade after being shot through the chest with what i believe was a harpoon? Because he is more human than human. (the astro creep, the demolition style hell american freak YEAH!)
c.Desmond is also a recrute of Jacob's, and knows more than he let's on, but this is unknown to Ben. Desmond is actually higher up than Ben, and is the only one Jacob trusts.
d.Desmond's premonitions aren't really premonitions, but manipulations of Charlie's actions, leading him to the hatch and eventually to his death. Desmond manipulates a lot of things around the camp.
e.'Jacob' is not a spirit, or a ghost, but a shaman, hence the undead "Others".
f.Locke is currently being recruted for Ben's managerial position by 'Jacob', as 'Jacob' is losing trust in Ben.
g.Juliet CAN actually be hotter than Kate from time to time. In that sweet girl kind of way.
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ai2301
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25#
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Rank:none
Score:256
Posts:256
Registered:05/23/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 1:32 AM)
Reply to : tamarastern
a) You dont know who created the island or why it was created.
Perhaps not, but it's a safe bet it wasn't created by Ben so again, the parallel isn't there. It is interesting how Ben turned the Initiave setup into something it wasn't apparently intended for though much like how Bantham got his idea for the prison from something much different.
As for the Ben/Ben stuff- it's a bit convenient that the writers close out the season with such a burning question yet offer the solution so easily. LOL Glad to see they didn't slip that one by you. LOL
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tamarastern
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26#
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Rank:none
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 1:55 AM)
It isnt really a matter of opinion, though.
By definition-
The island is a PENOPTICON
lol
and it did not have to physically be "created" by ben for him to have developed the IDEA.
I dont really understand how you cant see the paralell
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ai2301
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27#
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Rank:none
Score:256
Posts:256
Registered:05/23/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 2:10 AM)
Reply to : tamarastern
.I dont really understand how you cant see the paralell
Yes, but you also say you have proof that Jack is Jacob because he was shown with a beard so.....LOL
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tamarastern
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28#
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Rank:none
Score:55
Posts:55
Registered:05/19/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 2:30 AM)
Reply to : ai2301
Reply to : tamarastern.I dont really understand how you cant see the paralellYes, but you also say you have proof that Jack is Jacob because he was shown with a beard so.....LOL
No, dear.
The proof was in many things, the mention of the beard was a mention of humourous irony.
I sincerely hope your not knocking the VOLUMES of proof which I have shown you about the penopticon and jeremy bentham,
etc...
because....not to be rude, but its obvious stuff and pretty much anyone who read what I posted would be able to see it.
It appears that you either are looking to argue or...well, maybe dont have the best reading comprehension skills which is OKAY,
not everybody likes to read and I understand that.
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tamarastern
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29#
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Rank:none
Score:55
Posts:55
Registered:05/19/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 2:32 AM)
Technically, however-
Poor reading comprehension should be no excuse,
I posted PICTURES for the less apt
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ai2301
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30#
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Rank:none
Score:256
Posts:256
Registered:05/23/2007
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 2:49 AM)
Reply to : tamarastern
No, dear.The proof was in many things, the mention of the beard was a mention of humourous irony.I sincerely hope your not knocking the VOLUMES of proof which I have shown you about the penopticon and jeremy bentham,etc...because....not to be rude, but its obvious stuff and pretty much anyone who read what I posted would be able to see it.It appears that you either are looking to argue or...well, maybe dont have the best reading comprehension skills which is OKAY,not everybody likes to read and I understand that.
LOL- oooooook. you win- all other theories are wrong, you're the only one who's right.
There ya go;-) Take care now.
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