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tamarastern
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31#
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 10:17 AM)
good.
I'm glad you understand, then.
I only believe in logic.
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kurtlogan
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32#
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 5:28 PM)
Reply to : tamarastern
No, dear.The proof was in many things, the mention of the beard was a mention of humourous irony.I sincerely hope your not knocking the VOLUMES of proof which I have shown you about the penopticon and jeremy bentham,etc...because....not to be rude, but its obvious stuff and pretty much anyone who read what I posted would be able to see it.It appears that you either are looking to argue or...well, maybe dont have the best reading comprehension skills which is OKAY,not everybody likes to read and I understand that.
Fisrt the clipping does not say JEREMY BENTHAM it says J antham and 2nd nothing you have said and I may be wrong but nothing you have said or wrote points to jacob being jack or vice versa the argument can be said about the picture looks more like Locke in a 1800's outfit
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baked_scrod
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33#
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 7:24 PM)
Tamara, I waited a while before getting into this. I think you are on to something, and on this philosophy-infested island it wouldn't be a shock to find Bentham referenced, but the panopticon thing would only work if the people in the center could see through miles of forests. Remember the map is of the island and the scale is large. That said, I suspect that someone hoped we'd look at that map and think 'panopticon,'so a tasty fish biscuit for you!
After what we've seen, I can't give Ben any credit for deep thought. We've seen what a baby he is, a spoiled brat who could never please his loutish father and has now fallen into the same relationship with mysterious Jacob. He's no philosopher! In most societies his role would include asking "want fries with that?"
What you've got is tons of evidence and clues, not proof as you said. I'm not sure about the clipping - is it 'entham' or 'antham' we're seeing? Even if I spot you an 'e' it's a puzzle piece that doesn't fit. I don't see Jacob as a time-stranded Jack, the picture of him is intentionally blurry.
I think you've got something here, but we don't have the other clues. Don't be angry if others disagree! We're trying to outwit a whole tv studio with dozens of writers and researchers, and we don't know where they're heading. Likely we're all wrong. I'd love to see someone shoot down my parallel-worlds theory authoritatively.
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"Do you really believe there"s some kind of devil out there?"
"Of course. I"ve SEEN his food cake."
- Mystery Science Theater 3000
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skcents
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34#
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 8:27 PM)
Ok, we get it...Ben is in many ways similar to Jeremy Bentham and the island is in many ways similar to a panopticon...but this still doesn't really give us any new information...
You don't need to see any newspaper at all to assume that the character in the coffin is Ben. I am sure everyone came to that conclusion first, which probably means that it is a bit too obvious...
To me, the guy in the background of the Geronimo Jackson picture looks alot more like Jacob than Jack, Locke, or anyone else for that matter...
Lastly, I am new to this forum so forgive me if it has been mentioned before, but in voodoo practices circles of ash are used to ward off spirits, hence it is quite possible that Jacob is trapped within that circle. Suggestions that a circle of ash is a reference to fire, which somehow points to Jacob being Jack is a bit like grasping at straws...
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baked_scrod
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35#
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(Date Posted:05/24/2007 9:46 PM)
Tamara, someone's got a transcript of the article and it doesn't say Bentham. I still think you're on to something about the panopticon, so don't despair... at the very least you caused a bunch of people to google Jeremy Bentham and gasp at his mummy. Educating the masses, spreading the word. Somebody will make an A on a test because of this thread.
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"Do you really believe there"s some kind of devil out there?"
"Of course. I"ve SEEN his food cake."
- Mystery Science Theater 3000
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mattyp
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36#
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Score:21
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Registered:05/29/2007
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(Date Posted:06/03/2007 6:43 AM)
Dude, i really hope that you are wrong, just for the plain fact that all of your posts say the same thing over and over and they get really annoying. I mean how can it be "obvious" that ben is bentham when a majority of the viewers have never heard of the man. I know that you want to prove that your theory is correct, but so does everyone else, the truth is we won't know what is going on until it happens. I doubt that the brilliant writers of this show would make things as "obvious" as you think that they are. I mean no harm in the things i say, i just got sick of reading the same post over and over again.
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kurtlogan
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37#
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(Date Posted:06/03/2007 6:46 PM)
Reply to : mattyp
Dude, i really hope that you are wrong, just for the plain fact that all of your posts say the same thing over and over and they get really annoying. I mean how can it be "obvious" that ben is bentham when a majority of the viewers have never heard of the man. I know that you want to prove that your theory is correct, but so does everyone else, the truth is we won't know what is going on until it happens. I doubt that the brilliant writers of this show would make things as "obvious" as you think that they are. I mean no harm in the things i say, i just got sick of reading the same post over and over again.
i SECOND THAT HAHAHAHAHAHA
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lost-a-holic
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38#
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Rank:none
Score:35
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Registered:05/23/2007
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(Date Posted:06/03/2007 8:21 PM)
Reply to : tamarastern
No, dear.The proof was in many things, the mention of the beard was a mention of humourous irony.I sincerely hope your not knocking the VOLUMES of proof which I have shown you about the penopticon and jeremy bentham,etc...because....not to be rude, but its obvious stuff and pretty much anyone who read what I posted would be able to see it.It appears that you either are looking to argue or...well, maybe dont have the best reading comprehension skills which is OKAY,not everybody likes to read and I understand that.
OMG people...I thought this was a place for us to post our "theories" abt LOST, not try to convince each other of who's wrong and who's right. LMFAO!! Anywho....I def do agree abt the whole theory of Jeremy Bentham and the island. But I dont agree with Ben=Jeremy Bentham. ben was brought there as a child. Maybe Jacob=Jeremy Betham and is commanding Ben on what he should do. But Jacob def does NOT = Jack. IMO....Thanks for the good reads!!!
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"And there we were, all in one place, a generation LOST in space, with no time left to start again." ~Don McLean
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Archangel-Player
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(Date Posted:06/04/2007 6:35 AM)
I can see how Ben and Jeremy are the same .
1.) Below are some of the things in life he clamed he wa sin favor of .
He argued in favour of individual and economic freedom, including:
Funny thing is he wen't against all he claimed to be when he came up with the conspet of the Panopticon "Which by the way was never built"
The reason it was against his ways is it sugested to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience." In his own words, Bentham described the Panopticon as "a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example." This very well wen't against freedom of one's rights a subject he was very pro for. This in terms made him a hyprocrypt.
From our observations of LOST Ben very well taught the Good guy and bad guy rules when he him self broke these rules by lying and manipulating making him no differnt than Jeremy Bentham
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Archangel-Player
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(Date Posted:06/04/2007 7:09 AM)
 VS 
It's true they have a remarkable patern. Like in your diogram. the pearl of the Dharma stations does resymbol the central Inspecter of the Panopticon. The Dharmah people where unaware that the Peral was actualy watching their every movment at the same time neither did the Pearl know they too was being observed. So who was the Inspecter in the case of that senario? :-)
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Jack being Jacob is far fetched. Now John Locke as Jacob as in possably a verson of John from the future. Very plausable. I personaly think Jacob will be someone we have meet on the island . Only thing is it want be from that Space/Time/etc. I belive this verson of Jacob is a part of a psycic mind. He is being transmeted from a great distance from the future possably.
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GERONIMO JACKSON Picture. I can see Tom,Bonnie,Ethan. So who would be the black guy? The door doese seem to float. But actualy it's just leaned on that prop behind the black guy. I think the Henry gale guy in the licens was a lagit person and was the actual guy in the photo.
Geronimo Jackson
Geronimo Jackson has been referenced in three episodes of Lost as well as in The Lost Experience. The producers of Lost have asserted that Geronimo Jackson was a genuine, but obscure, 1970s rock band, which released one album entitled Magna Carta.[1] Aside from sources relating to Lost, there is no evidence for the existence of this band. [2]
In "The Hunting Party," a Geronimo Jackson album is found by Charlie and Hurley while they are going through all of the gramophone records in The Swan. The band is also referenced in the episodes "The Whole Truth" and "Further Instructions".
I don't think this fictinal band had anything to do with the code Bonnie said. the song was an actual song actualy many times :-) But the musician she spoke of could very well be her self if indeed she truly was menat to be part of Geronimo Jackson.
Have your pic of which
Good Vibrations, a 1966 song by the Beach Boys
Good Vibrations, a quarterly journal of MIQ-europe.org published by [von-herzberg.de Herzberg] and Bertsch
Good Vibrations (musical), a Broadway jukebox musical featuring music of The Beach Boys.
Good Vibrations (Marky Mark song), a 1991 dance song by Marky Mark
Good Vibrations (business), a worker-owned sex-toy business based in San Francisco
The Good Vibrations Festival is an annual music festival held in Australia
good vibrations, a pleasant feeling of emotional alignment
Good Vibrations (record label), a Northern Irish record shop and label
Bra vibrationer (Swedish for "Good vibrations"), a 1985 Kikki Danielsson album
Bra vibrationer
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tgav4
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41#
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Registered:06/05/2007
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(Date Posted:06/05/2007 8:41 PM)
Reply to : baked_scrod
The show's creators have already said there is no connection between any of the castaways before they got on the plane.. . . yeah, I do think they're lying sacks of #$@#$#@$.But this is good stuff - the Losties are an unplanned intrusion, but suppose the DHARMA bums were all prisoners? They wouldn't let Juliet leave. Mikhail: "I thought you were in Canada." Suppose they were offered these great jobs to remove them from society, like Ben's loser dad. They may have been doing actual work, but back home their next of kin have been notified and think they're dead.
Well obviously that's not true and the creators are lying because Jack and Claire are half brother and sister.
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ai2301
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42#
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(Date Posted:06/06/2007 1:59 AM)
Reply to : tgav4
the show's creators have already said there is no connection between any of the castaways before they got on the plane.. .
Never heard that they said that but , but if so I'm guessing they meant direct contact with each other. Obviously the whole show has been about how they have connections with each other.
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kurtlogan
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43#
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Registered:10/24/2006
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(Date Posted:06/06/2007 5:10 AM)
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Step back Slap ass
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immorelost
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44#
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(Date Posted:06/06/2007 10:38 AM)
Reply to : ai2301
Reply to : tgav4the show's creators have already said there is no connection between any of the castaways before they got on the plane.. .Never heard that they said that but , but if so I'm guessing they meant direct contact with each other. Obviously the whole show has been about how they have connections with each other.
I've never heard this before! Shurely being brother and sister is a pre-plane contact?
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lost-a-holic
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45#
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(Date Posted:06/06/2007 4:24 PM)
The episode where Claire has the flashback of when her mother died.... Her father, whom she never knew showed up to give his condolences....and it was Jacks father. Claire asked him why he was never part of her life and he said it was because he had a wife and son at home...or something like that.....
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"And there we were, all in one place, a generation LOST in space, with no time left to start again." ~Don McLean
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immorelost
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46#
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(Date Posted:06/07/2007 10:38 AM)
Reply to : lost-a-holic
The episode where Claire has the flashback of when her mother died.... Her father, whom she never knew showed up to give his condolences....and it was Jacks father. Claire asked him why he was never part of her life and he said it was because he had a wife and son at home...or something like that.....
I agree, thats what I mean, how can the LOST production say there is no pre-plane ties between the characters?
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ai2301
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47#
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(Date Posted:06/07/2007 9:39 PM)
Reply to : immorelost
Shurely being brother and sister is a pre-plane contact?
I view it as an association but not a direct contact. Whatever the case it's referring to something that I'm not sure was even said by the writers so who knows.
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aotstosil
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48#
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(Date Posted:06/11/2007 7:42 PM)
i agree that the penopticon and the map on the door in the hatch look strangly similar. and that all of the stations are being observed but they cant see when they are or eachother makes sence to, BUT think about this Jeremy Bentham lived a long time ago and is now dead. Ben on the other hand is still alive and in the 21st century. i think that the theory of the island being a giant penopticon is very plausible, but i completely disagree that Ben is Jeremy Bentham. personaly i think that whoever is in the coffin is going to be a newly introduced character.
PS. what was Jack's ex-wifes name?
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See you in another life, brother.
-Desmond
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aotstosil
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49#
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(Date Posted:06/11/2007 7:56 PM)
Funny thing is he wen't against all he claimed to be when he came up with the conspet of the Panopticon "Which by the way was never built"
how do you know that Bentham, like all other inventors, didn't make his own penopticon on the island but never told anyone, except for those who helped build it, because he didn't want word to leek out because someone might steal his invention.
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See you in another life, brother.
-Desmond
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aotstosil
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50#
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(Date Posted:06/11/2007 8:11 PM)
i forgot this.
see other people have also made panopticons
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See you in another life, brother.
-Desmond
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Archangel-Player
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(Date Posted:06/12/2007 7:03 AM)
Reply to : aotstosil
Funny thing is he wen't against all he claimed to be when he came up with the conspet of thePanopticon"Which by the way was never built"how doyou know that Bentham, like all other inventors, didn't make his own penopticon on the island but never told anyone, except for those who helped build it, because he didn't want word to leek out because someone might steal his invention.
We don't know that. He could have very well built it in a remote location. We only know what the history books tell us. All the rest is theiory and wishful thinking. Which everyone is intitled to do.
I wouldn't be suprized if someone did make his idea a reality. Lots have done that to many people's ideas.
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x pretty in pink x
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52#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2007 3:30 PM)
someone also thought that john was jacob as they had a picture of his face next to jacob's and there was some minor resemblance. i dont think that jack or john are jacob.
also its pretty much a certainty that ben couldnt have created the island as he arrived on it as a wee kid.
i agree that the island is a panopticon although i think your taking to much from it.
i looked it up in the dictioary and i can see the refrences from point 2 and 3 but not 1 since the island was up until charlie shut down the thing blocking island contact and also the button was stopped being pushed was invisible.
i dont beleive that jeremy bentham is ben. remember that there were people working for dharma on the island before ben arrived and a lot of the stations were probably there if not all. furthermore, ben was taken in by the hostiles who are now others and i think that although ben likes to think he is the leader richard is playing a bigger part than we have seen yet. also ben is in season 4 how could he be acting a charcter that is now dead?
| panopticon |
noun |
| 1. |
an area where everything is visible
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a circular prison with cells distributed around a central surveillance station; proposed by Jeremy Bentham in 1791 |
3. a building, as a prison, hospital, library, or the like, so arranged that all parts of the interior are visible from a single point.
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lostnlost
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53#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2007 6:21 PM)
Reply to : lost_in_iowa
Do you have a link to the website "Dark UFO"? I've seen references to it. Humpys is a great one too!!Thanks!!
Here you go http://darkufo.blogspot.com
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I LOVE A GOOD MYSTERY
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lostnlost
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54#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2007 6:30 PM)
I think they are all living a parellel life on th island somehow like Locke= Jacob- Charlie= the musician that programmed the The Looking Glass computer and other parallel things that SOME of the Losties have in commom with the island's history and or past/present. It sounds confusing but I get it LOL I think maybe Desmond is having Deja Vu's opposed to visions??
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I LOVE A GOOD MYSTERY
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immorelost
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55#
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(Date Posted:06/12/2007 9:18 PM)
Reply to : lostnlost
I think they are all living a parellel life on th island somehow like Locke= Jacob- Charlie= the musician that programmed the The Looking Glass computer and other parallel things that SOME of the Losties have in commom with the island's history and or past/present. It sounds confusing but I get it LOL I think maybe Desmond is having Deja Vu's opposed to visions??
In a way I think you are on to something. I have said in another post that I thought the 'future' glimpses might be a possible future, but now I am mor einclined to think that it is current time and that the things/people on the island have already happened, but is now happening either again or in a parallel.
Something has happened to make desmond re-live what happened on the island. The only thing is that if it is happening again for Desmond, maybe its not deja Vu, maybe its the case that he should have been on the island; but somehow something stopped him and now time is balancing itself and making him live the part of his life that he missed.
I really do think that the 'future' 'flash forwards??' are the key the the next series, once we know what/when they are then we'll have a better understanding of what is happening.
To explain why I think this..... Jack says to Kate that they should never have left the island. now that might just be reference to keep us all gripped knowing there is hope; but I think it is against the structure of the last 3 seasons to give away details about something that has not happened yet!
I don't know, I might be reading too much into what was shown in the last episode, but my thinking has switched from crash program to science fiction program to spooky program to heaven vs hell program to parallel universe program to I have no clue after 3 seasons program and I am SOOOOO gripped its unreal!
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Archangel-Player
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(Date Posted:06/13/2007 12:28 AM)
Then the producers have done their job so far :-). The show is supose to leave you questioning at the same time giving you a little nibble here and there. I have it down to how the show revolves around past,present and now future. Some how It's a puzzle that has to be fixed. You can't just go to one time period and stop something and then it's correct. Because then you have what's called a parellel universe where it's the same time line but differnt out come. I once played a game like that called Chrono Trigger where you found out that the fate of the world depended on you to stop the Apoclypse. Which existed in all time lines past,present,and future even distant future after the Apoclypse destroyed everything. Thing was after you finaly pin pointed a central time to battle the Apoclypse and finaly put it to rest. You find out in a sequal game that you didn't actualy defeat it. But knocked it into a parelel universe that was differnt. Now you had to cross two dimentions. one was called home world where the Apoclypse had been beaten. The other was called Another world where the APoclypse still lived and eventualy devoured Sapce and time all together if you didn't figure out how to cross dimentions and put time back the way it was supose to be. You had to find a way to satisfie both home and Another worlds. I think this is how it will be in th eshow. I think LostnLost had a great view when she said
I think they are all living a parellel life on th island somehow like Locke= Jacob- Charlie= the musician that programmed the The Looking Glass computer and other parallel things that SOME of the Losties have in commom with the island's history and or past/present. It sounds confusing but I get it LOL I think maybe Desmond is having Deja Vu's opposed to visions??
Makes perfect sense and some chrs do faver other chrs. I think Jacob could very well be a verson of Locke from a dimention of time. He was able to make contc by Walt in the home world as we see it now. Mean while Walt in this Other world which Jacob aka Locke is. Is projecting Jacob's imagie to Ben to try and prevent the call that Jack made from happening. I think Jack hasn't made that call yet. I belive the future we saw is this exact future in which this alternate Locke and Walt are and this is the future they are trying to prevent from happening. "Something along thoses lines" Im not sure how much im right or wrong. But Im doing the best with what I got. Can't wait to see more details to get a better picture.
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x pretty in pink x
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57#
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Rank:none
Score:495
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Registered:09/20/2006
Time spent: 1260 hours
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(Date Posted:06/13/2007 1:35 AM)
i beleiv jack made the call and niomi's people are going to cause loads of problems in season 4 with regards to the island
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lostnlost
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58#
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(Date Posted:06/13/2007 3:11 AM)
Reply to : Archangel-Player
Then the producers have done their job so far :-). The show is supose to leave you questioning at the same time giving you a little nibble here and there. Ihave it down to how the show revolves around past,present and now future. Some how It's a puzzle that has to be fixed. You can't just go to one time period and stop something and then it's correct. Because then you have what's called a parellel universe where it's the same time line but differnt out come. I once played a game like that called Chrono Trigger where you found out that the fate of the world depended on you to stop the Apoclypse. Which existed in all time lines past,present,and future even distant future after the Apoclypse destroyed everything. Thing was after you finaly pin pointed a central time to battle the Apoclypse and finaly put it to rest. You find out in a sequal game that you
Thanks Arch I feel that way because Jack seemed SO UNHAPPY in the present and or future and that him making that call was a pivitol move in regards to his destiny & he KNEW it in the "Flash Forward " episode.
That game you were playing sounds COOL like Terminator Style (I am referncing the O.G. Terminator) not the razz matazzed sequals they conjured up LOL
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I LOVE A GOOD MYSTERY
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Archangel-Player
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(Date Posted:06/13/2007 6:36 AM)
Reply to : lostnlost
Reply to : Archangel-PlayerThen the producers have done their job so far :-). The show is supose to leave you questioning at the same time giving you a little nibble here and there. Ihave it down to how the show revolves around past,present and now future. Some how It's a puzzle that has to be fixed. You can't just go to one time period and stop something and then it's correct. Because then you have what's called a parellel universe where it's the same time line but differnt out come. I once played a game like that called Chrono Trigger where you found out that the fate of the world depended on you to stop the Apoclypse. Which existed in all time lines past,present,and future even distant future after the Apoclypse destroyed everything. Thing was after you finaly pin pointed a central time to battle the Apoclypse and final
Im glad you found the game intresting here are the links to the two games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Trigger = This will revolve around Time travling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono_Cross= is the sequal and revolved around parallel dimensions
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lostnlost
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60#
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Registered:04/13/2006
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(Date Posted:06/13/2007 6:32 PM)
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I LOVE A GOOD MYSTERY
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