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Kiger Cowboy
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1#
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Registered:01/05/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/25/2006 9:33 AM)
Reply to : cindy966
I'm hoping to get on my colt this summer. I was wondering what sorts of things people look for that cause them to think the horse is prepared for a first ride. Thanks.
I guess what I look for is a saddle on their back- then they're ready, right?! LOL
Really, though, I always put the saddle on in the pen, and then turn them loose. I don't mind seeing them buck the first time with this, it dosn't mean anything. Actually, it teaches them a good lesson- that they can't buck something off their back (assuming you're cinched down real good!) and I always hope that lesson carries over to when I get on! I'll turn them out with the saddle on for an hour or so, and that's usually good. The next day I'll pull them both ways a couple times, then see what happens if I just get on half way. They usually wiggle a little, but if they stop and stand and let me pet them on the other side- as if it were my leg- then I'll do it a couple more times on both sides. With a horse thats calm for this, its very important to go half up on BOTH sides. I've found with the calm ones, when you go half up, they're looking at you with that eye- but when you go to swing your leg over the first time, if they haven't seen you over there before with the other eye, there's a good chance they'll spook and blow up.
Lots of good horses will just not want you putting weight in that stirrup, though. They'll get to squirting away as soon as you lift your leg. There's nothing wrong with them, they just need to be handled different. You could either tie up a hind leg, or have a GOOD hand snub you up. If you're being snubbed up, make sure the snubbing horse is a good rope horse, and the rider isn't scared- if they let go you're in trouble! If I'm alone, I'll tie up a hind leg. This is not very politically correct any more, but in my opinion it should be done with every horse anyway. Done right nothing gets skinned but their pride, and again they learn a good lesson- their legs can get tangled up and fighting does no good. Horses taught this are glad for it if they ever get a rope around their legs, or get caught up in wire. With their leg up, you can get on and off on both sides and even slide off their rump. Then you can let the leg down and try from square one again. I will eventually do this even with the ones that stand for me to get on.
That's just an idea of how I do it, Cindy. I'm sure others do it very different ;-)
Brian
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rubymountainkigers
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2#
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Registered:10/15/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/25/2006 8:59 PM)
Cindy,
I do things a little different when I have young horses in my string that I have to work cattle on for a living than I do with young horses I'm starting for someone else. The basics are all the same but if I have a job for them that day I get to spend alot less time with them than I'd prefer and just have to get them covered and get the job done.
Most folks don't have this constraint though so I'll describe some of the things I do when starting a young horse for someone else to ride. By the way Brian made some real good suggestions.
First off ground work. There is no substitute for good ground work. Tom used to say "If a fella would spend more time on the ground at the beginning he'd be more likely to spend less time on the ground later on and it'd be a whole lot easier on him." With this it depends alot if your working a hand raised gentle horse or one thats been range raised or from the wild that doesn't have alot of experience with people. In both cases you will work on developing trust and respect in the horse as this equates to true leadership. As a generall rule hand raised horses usually need more work on the respect end of things and wild or range raised horses need more work with trust. But each horse is an individual and they will tell you what they need to work on that day and when there ready to proceed if you'll listen.
In ground work I like to have them lead by all body parts with a rope, especially the feet. I like them to yield to pressure, be very light and move their hindquarters and forehand independently when asked. I want them to lead up nice with float in the rope. I want them to stand being flagged all over. I want them to hook on and follow me when I pressure their tail head and release the pressure and walk away. I want them to do lateral and verticcal flexions without resistance. As I put light pressure on the poll I want them to lower their head all the way to the ground as this is one of the last places a horse holds resistance. I look for areas of resistance in the horse and work on getting them to release this resistance and yield. I make sure they are good about having their ears handled.
When all of these things are good I'll do a first saddling. I prefer to have them let me put the pad and saddle on while they are at liberty. If they move off I let them go with the idea but make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult. You can move but it's going to be work. Pretty soon their sense of self preservation kicks in and they don't want to waste energy and they stand there nice and quiet. Once I get them saddled I'll flag them some more, tap the saddle with the flag, flap the stirrups and stirrup fenders, rope the saddle, move the saddle around by the horn. throw loops all over them and the saddle and drive them around the round pen with the saddle on. Some will blow, some will crow hop a little and some will be calm but they all settle in and get to thinking it's no big deal and all of these odd things are just part of the process and won't hurt them.
Next I'll ground drive them in long lines to put a nice light rein on them using either a rope halter or bosal. I want them to stop lightly and squarely, respond to the slightest vibration of the rein, roll back, change leads etc.
Next I'm ready to mount. First check for any soreness etc when brushing them down before saddling. Put the saddle on and move it around from both sides by the horn. Flap the stirrups and fenders. Put some wieght on the stirrups with your hands. Step up in the stirrup half way up then back down. If the horse walks of on you stop, back them up and ask them to stand while you start to mount again. Turn the stirrup into you facing the rear of the horse so if they take of you won't go over backwards or are more likely to get kicked. Mount up half way again and stroke the other side of the horse to let them know you atre there. Both sides are different to a horse. Just because their fine with something happening on one side doesn't mean their ready on the other. Now if all has gone well you can step up in the saddle and gently swing a leg over, set down easy in the saddle so as not to jar them with your seat bones and set there. One pre ride check I forgot is to always check and see if their tail is tucked before you mount. If their tail is tucked their going to buck. If it is on the ground disenguage the hind quaters move them around some and scratch near the tail head to release this resistance.
Once your on the horse you can ask them to go forward. They may run. Let them. You should be able to ride as fast as any horse can run. Pretty soon they'll slow down to a walk. Don't pull back on the reins or you' ll teach them to buck or rear. Grab the mane if you have to. Pull leather or hook a night latch ( a strip of leather that can be buckled) under the pommel to act as a hand hold if you need to. You can pull out their mane if you have to ( I doubt you will though. You might think you'll need to but you won't) but don't pull on those reins yet. Once the horse settles in and walks out nice you can ask for direction by lightly signaling with the reins. They already know this from the ground work you will have done. Let the horse back move your seat bones in unison to the horse. You direct movement with your seat later. You soon be controlling their feet through their mind with your rein, seat and leg aids. Already on the ground we would have taught them to move one foot at a time in any direction we want and back one foot at a time with the rope halter and then with the long lines.
Now your ready to start the real work. I'm sure I've left out a bunch of things I look for and do but this should get you started pretty good. Let me know if you or anyone else has any questions and I'll try to answer them.
Tim
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Tim Westfall
Let your idea become their idea.
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cindy966
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3#
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Rank:none
Score:142
Posts:142
Registered:02/18/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/27/2006 5:05 AM)
Thanks folks for these informative posts. Brian, I knew about going half-way up on both sides but didn't know that reasoning. Very interesting. There is a lot here in these two posts so I'm going to digest them a little and practice a few more things.
The person that is helping me every so often will have me start in a halter and lead rope. I'm thinking this is so that there is no chance of me pulling back on reins but possibly there are other reasons too. Then, after a bit I think we're going to tie the lead rope like reins but to the halter. Do you people start in a halter? When do you use the snaffle?
My colt has been saddled a lot for a long time. Today I put a different saddle on that doesn't fit real well and bounces a bit. (there was a reason) This bothered him. Do you think I should use this some more so that he will accept a bouncing saddle or go back to the more comfortable one?
Do you folks feel it is important to have the horse move through all the gaits from the very start? My prediction is that he will walk and trot but not lope when I get on. Whenever I add something to the saddle (plastic buckets, stuff hanging) he is hesitant to lope. Something new usually causes him to slow down. I might need somebody with a flag or whip to get the canter the first time or two since I think I'm not supposed to use leg yet.
He dragged an empty feed sack today for the first time. That was pretty cool. Next time I'll put some sand in it.
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rubymountainkigers
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4#
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Registered:10/15/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/28/2006 2:33 AM)
Cindy,
I do start young horses in a rope halter. The way you described your instructor having you do it is the same method Ray Hunt has folks use in his Colt Starting Clinics. Lots of other folks use that method as well. It does help alot in keeping folks from pulling back on the reins. I know there are some dressage riders out there who will think this is terrible and that one shouldn't ride a horse with "that lack of control" and the horse should be started in a snaffle. Some may even recommend in hand work with the snaffle bit before riding, as per the French Method. That method is an excellent method to use if one understands it. It takes a little longer but it produces horses with a great degree of lightness and finesse. It also require a great degree of finesse and lightness from the trainer which is why alot of folks don't teach that method to someone just starting out.Using the rope halter will protect the horses mouth from too heavy of hands until the horse learns to yield to the rein aids, which is why alot of folks prefer to do it that way. If you've done your ground work sufficiently you will have plenty of "control" with your horse. The idea is to control the feet by working with the mind through feel not to try and control the body of the horse through force while ignoring the mind and essentially stealing rides.
I will usually use the snaffle after the first few rides with the rope halter, unless I'm going directly to the hackamore as you would in the old vaquero tradition. I also would go straight to the hackamore if the horse is a long three year old or four year old as their mouth will be more sensitive as their adult teeth are emerging and they work in the hackamore more willingly than the bit. If I have been doing work in hand with the snaffle you can go to the snaffle on the first ride. I like to use a gum drop snaffle (one coated with rubber) when I first introduce a horse to the snaffle. It doesn't bump their teeth when they play with it and it seems all horses like it right away. I switch to a French snaffle (one with an additional center link later on for snaffle bit horses). I like to introduce the bit slow and easy, make sure you don't bump their teeth putting it in or taking it out and be sure their good about their ears and lower their head to be bridled before hand and you save yourself alot of trouble.
As for your saddle I would use the one that fits. The horses comfort should always come first. You can bounce that saddle, rub a flag all over the saddle, tap the saddle with the flag or a driving whip, rope the saddle and pull him around by it, make him pack tarps and sand bags on the saddle or any numerous things you can come up with to desensitize him to the saddle. Just don't make him wear a poorly fitting saddle and sore him up. Let your imagination be the limit as long as what you do is safe and comfortable for your horse and you. Your horse should always be calmer and more responsive when you end the lesson than they were when you started it. Then give them plenty of soak time.
I definately don't think it's important to move through all of the gaits at the start. Now I know alot of folks will disagree with me but let me tell you some reasons why. First and foremost finesse and precision should always come before speed. You can add speed later. They should be able to do everything well at the walk first then proceed to the trot then to the lope. Second a horse already knows how to walk trot and lope what he needs to learn is how to do it while balancing the weight of the rider. Thirdly if you ask for too much too soon you can overexpose the horse and set them back. I'm not the first to think of this. The French Master, Francois Baucher expounded on it in the 1700's. He believed that flexions and collection should all be taught while standing still then one could proceed to riding and finally extension. He was able to teach horse not only the high school movements but canter horses backwards by employing his method.
Finally I wouldn't lope until he understands the leg and seat aids well and stops with your seat as well as transitions down with your seat aids. Then he'll be ready for work at the canter or lope and you won't teach him bad habits you have to undo.
Keep up the good work and keep the questions coming. I think you've asked some really good ones.
Tim
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Tim Westfall
Let your idea become their idea.
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cindy966
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5#
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Rank:none
Score:142
Posts:142
Registered:02/18/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/30/2006 4:14 PM)
Does anyone ever have a problem with getting their knees smashed on the rail when first riding a colt? I see this guy travels really close to the rail. I hung a couple of those big square plastic boxes that kitty litter comes in off each side of his saddle so that it would hit the rail to maybe move him away from it some.
How soon do you start using your leg? When you introduce the snaffle?
Hey Brian, if you are there, do you go through all the gaites from the start?
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EquQuest
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6#
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Rank:none
Score:26
Posts:26
Registered:01/11/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/01/2006 6:19 AM)
When a horse rubs you too close to the fence, we just turn them into the fence - does not take long until they pay more attention to where they are.
I start using my leg pretty quick, though each horse is different. If I am preparing a horse for myself, I leave alot of "forward" in them and get them going by driving over my hip with the end of the lead rope or tapping my leg with the lariat or my hands. If I am starting them for a client, I prepare them more and get them calmer before I start riding. Then I will use my legs right away so they get the feel for it and get them a little more desensatized.
I also don't bit my personal horses until they are 5 or 6, and all their teeth have come in. I will bit a clients horse after they are moving forward in all gaits very well, relaxed, with no hesitation. A bit in the wrong hands can hinder forward movement VERY quickly in a young horse especially. I don't want them to think about anything else but forward..I also don't want a bit in the mouth while they are learning to turn and follow the rein - I want to save that mouth for refinement - but again, it all depends on the level of the owner and what the horse will be used for.
The biggest thing is getting them to where they can switch eyes before you ride. When you are sitting up there and your horse sees you out of the left eye and all of a sudden "loses" you and catches you out of the right eye, they can get upset and flighty. I like to do this first at liberty with a lariat on their neck, and turn them into the fence while I flip the rope over their hip. I get this at all three gaits until they are relaxed and don't pick up speed after they switch. Then I use the lead rope over their head and over the saddle horn and teach them to follow the feel. This means they have to turn in front of my and switch eyes while I am behind them. Agian, I work on this until they don't pull and turn relaxed and calm. This REALLY helps you when you are up there!
Michelle
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"Do not go where the Path may Lead. Go instead where there is no Path and leave a Trail." emerson
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Kiger Cowboy
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7#
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Registered:01/05/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/01/2006 6:41 PM)
Cindy,
Ya, most of the time I'll try to get them to walk, trot, and lope on the first ride. Basically, the horse can do one of five things when you get on for the first time- stand there and do nothing- walk off- trot off- run- or, well, we won't dwell on the fifth thing! The ones that just stand there, I'll take one rein real easy and just touch them real light at first with my spur on that side and try to get them to move their hind end over on both sides. Sometimes they'll get bored of this and start walking, others I'll just tap a little with my quirt or saddle strings to get them to walk off. When the horse is walking, I'll mostly just let him go where he wants for a while, then start doing some figure 8s, same with trotting. If you get on and he starts to run, I'd do just like Tim said- just stay with him! Pulling back on both reins won't do a damn bit of good, unless you just want to make him mad. I usually take a deep seat, and hang on to my rope. When he wants to slow down, OR if he gets to shaking and lowering his head (a sign he may buck) I'll sit back, take the rein closest to the fence and give it a quick hard pull then release. He probably won't stop all together, but his head will turn and his feet will foul, and he might stop. Then I'll give him a lighter pull and slap him with my leg on the other side as he turns against the fence. When he's turned the other way, I'll tap him up and get him going again, and do this a couple more times. He'll slow down after a bit. This is called the double, and directly or indirectly, all hackamore training goes back to this. Some things to remember- always use the rein closest to the fence (unless doing figure 8s) and never pull both reins at the same time. Also, never use both legs at the same time yet. I wear spurs, sometimes they help and sometimes they don't- I wouldn't recommend them unless you've done this a few times. Getting off the horse the first time can be as tricky as getting on. If the horse is calm when you're ready to get off (he should be), there's no shame in having whoever's helping you hold him when you get off. Many do nothing, but some will squirt away, so just have your toe in the stirrup- nothing more embarrasing then having a great first ride, just to get dumped and drug trying to get off! Sometimes just getting the horse to stop long enough to get off can be tricky, even if they're just walking! This is why I like to teach them to move their hindquarters over right away, it usually stops them long enough for you to get off. I like the first ride to really be a ride- so I'm not really a "just use a halter" type. I used to always use a hackamore for the first ride, but for the last couple years I've used a side-pull with leather reins- just for the first ride. It feels just like a halter on the horse, but the reins attach to the sides, instead of under the chin, so when I pull one way or the other I think it confuses them a little less. By the second ride, they've got this figured out, so then I put the hackamore back on. The snaffle can be used instead of the hackamore, too.
Brian
Reply to : EquQuest
When a horse rubs you too close to the fence, we just turn them into the fence - does not take long until they pay more attention to where they are.I start using my leg pretty quick, though each horse is different. If I am preparing a horse for myself, I leave alot of "forward" in them and get them going by driving over my hip with the end of the lead rope or tapping my leg with the lariat or my hands. If I am starting them for a client, I prepare them more and get them calmer before I start riding. Then I will use my legs right away so they get the feel for it and get them a little more desensatized.I also don't bit my personal horses until they are 5 or 6, and all their teeth have come in. I will bit a clients horse after they are moving forward in all gaits very well, relaxed, with no hesitation. A bit in the wrong h
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Kiger Cowboy
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8#
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Registered:01/05/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/01/2006 6:58 PM)
I just read this whole thread again, and got to thinking. What I've wrote here is the way that I personally do this, as this is they way I've been taught by others, who've been taught by others before them (and so on..) in the game of starting ranch horses. Sometimes it may sound a little reckless, and I guess it is. Tim knows this, but he has put a ton of advice out here, from a great vararity(sp?) of schools of thought, which is probably better too pay attention to then mine! I'm always pushing, asking for just a little more, as I feel this keeps the horse on the edge, and in an almost constant state of learning. It's real easy to push too far though. It's always better (and safer) to take your time and go the horses speed.
Brian
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cindy966
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9#
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Rank:none
Score:142
Posts:142
Registered:02/18/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/02/2006 6:14 PM)
You folks are the greatest!!!!! Thanks for all the neat suggestions and keep 'em coming if you think of them. I don't have much time to write right now but I'm certainly more aware now of working the horse with both eyes, getting forward movement instead of acting on fear and wanting slower, thinking about getting OFFand not just on the first time (duh-never crossed my mind), and doing lots of stuff like leading with the rope around the feet. I'll reread this whole thread soon and pick up more I'm sure. Again THANKS to all. Definitely want to reread the doubling thing too! As well as more of Tim's prep ideas.
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cindy966
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10#
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Rank:none
Score:142
Posts:142
Registered:02/18/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/14/2006 4:45 PM)
I've spent the last few weeks leading my colt by his feet, having him drag things, tying stuff on him etc. We have a plan. In a perfect world I would start him at age 3. I don't live in a perfect world. My mare's ringbone is not good so he's going to get started at 2 since I don't have a horse to ride and would really be uncomfortable getting on a green colt after not having ridden for a year. (I could borrow a horse infrequently but that's not enough) I don't weight much so the plan is to have my instructor come up Memorial Day weekend to do a first ride. In preparation I went to her place yesterday. She likes to body sack them first, have you sit on them and take a few steps with someone guiding. We're supposed to do that several times in the next 2 weeks. Here are some pictures. Pretty exciting.
I decided to try to change a picture. We did the bareback thing at home too and this picture is prettier with the new greenery on the trees. Hope it works.
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Kiger Cowboy
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11#
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Registered:01/05/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/15/2006 9:32 AM)
Lookin good, Cindy- Way to go!
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JoanMRK
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12#
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From: USA 
Registered:09/06/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/16/2006 9:28 PM)
I almost missed this one -- congrats!! This is exciting, and thanks for sharing your pics and adventures! 
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www.MudRanchKigers.com
www.mudranch.wordpress.com
A man on a horse is spiritually, as well as physically, bigger than a man on foot.
~John Steinbeck
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cindy966
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13#
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Rank:none
Score:142
Posts:142
Registered:02/18/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/05/2006 4:51 AM)
YIPPEEEE!!!!!! Did my first ride today on my colt. My teacher had a death in the family and has been out of state for several weeks so I got some buddies together and we did it anyway. He was wonderful. He even chewed more than once during the walk phases. I decided to tie the lead rope in case things went really south. I wouldn't have to worry about dropping it. I'm glad it was just a rope and halter as I did not realize I was holding the rope so high. I was trying really hard to not pull on it at all. This was a very cool experience. A first for me. I wanted to thank everyone again for the prior posts as I reread them before doing this. It was helpful since I had no instructor present. (the weird looking spot on his hip is just how the light happened to be hitting where his brand is growing in)
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Chiger
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14#
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Rank:none
Score:99
Posts:99
Registered:02/19/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/05/2006 5:41 PM)
Oooo, Cindy!!! How fabulous is that! I bet you are so proud of him.
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"Nothing is so strong as gentleness, and nothing so gentle as real strength." - Ralph W. Sockman
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JoanMRK
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15#
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From: USA
Registered:09/06/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/05/2006 5:46 PM)
Way to go Cindy & Zory! Congrats on a great ride -- he sure looks relaxed and listening to you. It won't be long before you're out on the trails. Keep us updated, and the pictures are a great bonus too! 
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www.MudRanchKigers.com
www.mudranch.wordpress.com
A man on a horse is spiritually, as well as physically, bigger than a man on foot.
~John Steinbeck
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DianneC
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16#
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Registered:09/04/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/06/2006 6:45 AM)
Yipee! is right! You did it! What a great day for you both. Zory looks very calm and attentive with lots of forward. You should be very proud.
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DianneC
There is no greater compliment than the trust of your horse.
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heathawhateva
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17#
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Registered:02/23/2008
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:starting colts
(Date Posted:02/23/2008 8:25 PM)
i have a gelding i have been working for 40 days now he is 4yrs. i am having a lot of problums with him. i have all the ground work on him and he has takin a saddel and bit, but he is wierd he is affried of everything now matter what i do to him is always scared. now i have been trying to put my foot in the saddel for about 2 weeks now. he bolts really bad i have snubbed him tied up one front foot and he wont stop. i laid him down last week and got on him that way and i was fine walked right out, and even let me get off. The neext day i went to get on him and he bolted again, i can put my foot in but when i go to get up thats when he does it. I got up on him yesterday after working him for a hour and he blew up on me and wouldent stop buckin. i ended up in the dirt after awhile, and just got him to the point were i could get up half way on him and him stand still and called it a day. i am stumped on him i need help.
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