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Title: 43 Mauser from 348 Win Brass ?? 


A long time ago I recall seeing a discussing, I think, on Shooters.com about making 43 Mauser brass from 348 Winchester. I recall that 348 Winchester was the easiest though I may be wrong. Does anyone have information about doing this.I know Bertram's making their 43 Mauser like this.Afriendof minewants to make brass for his43 Mauserhimself, hehas alathe etc. I don't think he's very experienced with his lathe but apparently has a machinist friend he can get guidancefrom.Any assistance is greatly appreciated.Thanks, Jim Cherry

JCherry posted on 08/20/2004 06:06:09

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Reply to : JCherry



A long time ago I recall seeing a discussing, I think, on Shooters.com about making 43 Mauser brass from 348 Winchester. I recall that 348 Winchester was the easiest though I may be wrong. Does anyone have information about doing this.I know Bertram's making their 43 Mauser like this.Afriendof minewants to make brass for his43 Mauserhimself, hehas alathe etc. I don't think he's very experienced with his lathe but apparently has a machinist friend he can get guidancefrom.Any assistance is greatly appreciated.Thanks, Jim Cherry





.........I bought 50 Win 348 cases in the hopes of using this comparatively inexpensive brass to make into .43 Spanish. I was quickly disabused of this almost immediately. The .43 Spanish is even a bit larger around in the head then your friend's desired conversion to the 11.15x60R Mauser. I managed to completely mangle one 348 Win case in the process and that's why at NCBS '04 Ammohead received a bag of 49 Win 348 cases instead of the full 50

If Bertram is in fact using 348 Win brass to form their .43 Mauser, I see no indication of it, as I have 140 rounds of Bertram .43 Mauser and .43 Spanish. I'm aware that Buffalo Arms DOES create a couple cases using the 348 Win brass as a parent case, yet they're in the business of doing so and have some equipment dedicated to the proceedure. The dimensions of both cases are presented below as 348 Win/.43 Mauser:

Rim Diameter: .610/.550
Rim thickness: .070/.093
Casehead: .553/.516
Case length: 2.255/2.376

My understanding is that Buffalo has 'hydro-swaging' equipment and that they also 'roll swage' brass. It is certainly a bit more involved then either running the parent case into the desired sized die or chucking it into a lathe and turning off the unwanted brass. Buffalo actually does re-drawing of the case under some pretty substantial pressure, and/or also rolling between narrow steel form wheels in the casehead area.

My suggestion is to either buy the reformed brass from Buffalo, or buy Bertram's excellent brass from either Midway or Graf & Son. I beleive dealer cost from either is about $28/20 or retail at $32/20. Midway will on occasion put their Bertram brass on sale and it's close to dealer price. It's not my intent to discourage your friend from trying to make his own Mauser brass from the 348 Win case, as it's sure to provide him with many hours of entertainment

............Buckshot

Buckshot2 posted on 08/20/2004 10:40:59

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JCherry:

My understanding of the .43 Spanish case manufacture is about the same as Buckshot"s.  Some writers have stated that some .43 chambers "may" allow the use of the .348 case as-is, but the general recommendation is to thin the base and trim the rim somewhat before fireforming.  Alternatively, a ring die and a hydraulic press could be used to swage the base down.  The resultant case is somewhat short for the chamber, as well.  These desperation measures were SOP in the Good Old Days when there was, literally, no other alternative (except maybe turned cases) but unless your friend wishes the experience of making cases, it would be much more cost-effective to buy them.  Bertram, Buffalo, DKT and Ballard Rifle and Cartridge all make .43 Spanish brass now.

Buckshot, are Bertram cases any good now?  When I bought 40 of them in .43 Basic  ten or twelve years ago and trimmed them to .43 Spanish, I got  5 lengthways body splits on the first firing, with black powder.  A couple or three more went the same way on the remainder the second firing, and it looked like I was going to lose a case or two on every subsequent firing.  At two bucks plus a pop, that was getting expensive.  On the other hand, a batch of 20  .405 basic Bertram cases, which I bought once fired about five years later, and looked scaly and horrible, formed into .35 Winchester with no losses, and have gone through about 10 firings, both with cast bullets and with full jacketed loads, with no loss.  Hopefully, Bertram is getting a grip on their brass metallurgy by now.



Bent Ramrod posted on 08/22/2004 08:01:31

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.............Bent Ramrod, Guess I've been lucky . I have 120 Bertram 577-450's that are many years old and the most senior batch of 20 has over 30 firings. I anneal every 4th shot. My .43 Mauser brass has been used in 3 different rifles. Offhand I'd say the most used batches probably have between 8 and 12 firings. I just don't recall offhand.

The .43 Spanish has only been fired from one rifle and I'd guess they have 6-8 firings apiece also. To sum it all up, I've yet to lose a Bertram cartridge case. None of these were 'basic' type's and were fully formed upon my getting them.

Your mentioning the deal on the .43 Spanish reminded me that yes, I'd read it was common for people having the 1879 Argentine RB's which were cheap and plentifull in the 60's to have the rear of the chamber opened up to use the larger 348. Expand the casemouth and then blow'em out. A slight mod to the extractor and you were in bidness.

............Buckshot

Buckshot2 posted on 08/22/2004 09:18:01

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Buckshot,

You are correct. The brass I referred to was from Buffalo, not Bertram. The Buffalo brass is obviously made from 348 Win as a bit of the original head stamp is still visible.

I appreciate the info and will pass it on to my friend with the suggestion he "bite the bullet" and buy the brass. 

 Thanks, JCherry

 



JCherry posted on 08/22/2004 17:16:37

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