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Title: 45-70 And 2400/Unique?
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Bullthrower
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(Date Posted:03/25/2005 23:18:02)
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I was wondering if anyone has had any experience loading the 45-70 with 2400 and/or Unique. I have recently realized I can do 99% of my loading(with very acceptable results)with 3 powders: Unique/2400/and 4895. Unfortunately I have no 45-70 data in the mannuals I currently have on hand, using 2400 and Unique. Any experience with these in 45-70?Any goodload suggestions?Thanks fellas..---I will beshooting the the Lee 405 and 340 Grainers...
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Bullthrower
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(Date Posted:03/25/2005 23:18:03)

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience loading the 45-70 with 2400 and/or Unique. I have recently realized I can do 99% of my loading (with very acceptable results) with 3 powders: Unique/2400/and 4895. Unfortunately I have no 45-70 data in the mannuals I currently have on hand, using 2400 and Unique. Any experience with these in 45-70? Any good load suggestions?

Thanks fellas..

 ---I will be shooting the the Lee 405 and 340 Grainers...

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Maven
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(Date Posted:03/25/2005 23:48:45)

Bull-, I've been using Frank Marshall, Jr's. recommended load of 13gr. Unique with CB's such as yours with complete success in my Marlin #336 (microgroove)/.45-70. ...Maven
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arkypete
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(Date Posted:03/25/2005 23:59:44)

Reply to : Bullthrower

I've used the 13 grains of Unique with grossly over sized 255-260 grain cast Lyman SWCs. It's about a quiet as a 22 RF and has the recoil of a BB gun. Great fun for plinking cans and rocks.

Jim

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Cast bullets are the true and rightous path to shooting bliss

NVcurmudgeon
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(Date Posted:03/26/2005 00:09:15)

Reply to : Bullthrower


I was wondering if anyone has had any experience loading the 45-70 with 2400 and/or Unique. I have recently realized I can do 99% of my loading(with very acceptable results)with 3 powders: Unique/2400/and 4895. Unfortunately I have no 45-70 data in the mannuals I currently have on hand, using 2400 and Unique. Any experience with these in 45-70?Any goodload suggestions?Thanks fellas..---I will beshooting the the Lee 405 and 340 Grainers...

Bullthrower,  I have some old Lyman manuals that have data for Unique and 2400.  Disclaimer:  This is old data, going back as far as the late 1950s.  Also, both powders are made by Alliant now, but were Hercules products when the manuals were written. And today's 2400 is somewhat faster burning than the old Hercules product, enough different  to give trouble with maximum loads.  You might try Alliant's web site to see if they have modern data for these two powders.  As a last resort you can PM me your snail address and I can send you Xerox copies of the old Lyman pages.  curmudgeon  

 

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MGySgt
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(Date Posted:03/26/2005 00:43:49)

Reply to : Bullthrower

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience loading the 45-70 with 2400 and/or Unique. I have recently realized I can do 99% of my loading(with very acceptable results)with 3 powders: Unique/2400/and 4895. Unfortunately I have no 45-70 data in the mannuals I currently have on hand, using 2400 and Unique. Any experience with these in 45-70?Any goodload suggestions?Thanks fellas..---I will beshooting the the Lee 405 and 340 Grainers...

I have been doing a lot of testing with the 45/70 and cast 430gr GC for a good solid hunting load.  I also have the older Lyman manual's that list 2400 and unique.

FWIW - I have tried 3031, IMR and H-4198, and 2400.  I have had acceptable results with both 4198's, with max velocity just under 1700 (Ruger #!). 

BUT 2400 and a dacron filler comes in low 1600's and by far out shoots 4198.  I am talking MOA with 2400 and 1.5 - 2 for 4198's.

 NVcurmudgeon - 100% correct.  You have to start with the starting loads and go slow with the 2400.  My loads for my Marlins and Ruger #1 do not even come close to max before they start opening up in group size.


My latest test is with Heat Treated and Air cooled.  Air cooled (12 BRN) is beating the Heat treated (23 BRN) both in accuracy and velocity.  Haven't chronoed the loads yet but I am over the charge weight for HT with the air cooled and still going (no where near max in the old Lyman books).  I had expected the Air cooled to seal better and not require as much powder for the same accuracy - WRONG.  Better accuracy and higher velocity.  Not done with the testing yet, but initially I might abondon Heat Treating them.

Drew

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Big Bore - What Else - 45/70

arkypete
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(Date Posted:03/26/2005 03:14:42)

Give this a try with you light charges of Unique or 2400. Take some toilet tissue or kleenex and cut them into 1.5 inch squares or 2. inch squares, tamp this down on top of the powder. I mostly use a piece of highly polished steel, started life as a Belling and Mull powder cyclinder from their old powder measure to the tamping with. The paper does a good job of holding the powder against the primer and burns up in the barrel.

Jim

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Cast bullets are the true and rightous path to shooting bliss

Buckshot2
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(Date Posted:03/26/2005 04:50:27)

...............I have an H&R Little Bighorn Commemorative TD carbine which is VERY accurate. I made a stupid comment once that I was going to shoot this in our weekly matches until I won with it. About 4 months later I won. I made this comment on the accuracy displayed with a load of 12.0 Unique and the RCBS 300gr FN boolit. This silly statement was made without thinking, as our matches are shot standing up.

With the 50 yard sight setting, the front blade was the barest nub peeking up over the action hinge so it was hard to see. Add in the fact that the carbine weighs about as much as a Ruger SBH, and the long hammerfall made it a cast iron puppy mother to hold. I was sick to death of the thing and was willing to PAY the other guys to let me win so the ordeal would be over. I've NEVER made a similar statement since

......................Buckshot

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Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner

Maven
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(Date Posted:03/26/2005 05:10:34)

Ditto what Arkypete/Jim said about toilet issue atop Unique. ...Maven
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drinksgin
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(Date Posted:03/26/2005 06:55:12)

I use 4227 with a 210gr gc and 4198 with 320gr RCBS fn gc, supposed to be 300 but is almost 10% over weight before lubing, also the Lee  405gr 457-405F  and 500gr , 459 500 3R , both modified for gas checks, I prefer gas checks on all cast bullets ,really seems to help accuracy and speed cleaning.

Have the 405 doing 1400fps with 30 gr 4198 and the 500 at 1180fps with 25 gr 4198.

Have some heavier loads ready to go, just need it to stop raining.

My stopping point will be my right shoulder, have had a rotator cuff repair and even with a recoil pad cannot take much of a beating without quite a bit of pain

Don

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E G
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(Date Posted:03/26/2005 22:38:56)

I just finished my 3rd can of Unique shot in the 45/70 in last 5 years. I use 13.5 grains with 300 gr bullets.  Lyman manuals list loads for Unique.

 

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fourarmed
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(Date Posted:03/27/2005 17:44:07)

2400 gave very good accuracy in my Marlin.  I switched to 4759 because I had quite a bit of it at the time, but I don't think it gave any better groups.

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Pilgrim2
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(Date Posted:03/27/2005 20:55:02)

When you are ready for a "stomper" load, make sure to include 4895 in your trials. I'm shooting the RCBS 45-405 (425 gr. as cast & ready to shoot) in an Winchester Extra Light 1886 (USRAC repro), over 4895.   The load uses no filler, a standard primer, LBT blue lube, and an air cooled WW (+ 1.5% tin, + 5% magnum shot) @BHN 15 boolit.  I'm 2 grains below the Book Max., but have decided to stop at 54 gr.  The boolit velocity is 1900 fps, and it groups as good as I can hold.  Someplace around 1" at 50 yds, benchrest, aperture sight.  It stomps on both ends as you'd expect out of a 7.5# rifle, but I think that load would handle about anything a person would want to hunt/shoot.  FWIW  Pilgrim
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Clarkm
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(Date Posted:04/03/2005 08:44:12)

I shot 40 gr of IMR4895 with 405 gr cast in a 45/70 handi rifle [trap door starting load] and it kicked me into next week.

Later, for experimental purposes and with the butt against my left palm, I shot 32 gr Unique with 405 gr and wrecked the brass.
Quickload estimates this at 1900 fps and 88,000 psi.
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