Reciever sectioning milling fixture

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Title: Reciever sectioning milling fixture

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Buckshot2

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Rank:none
Score: 2726
Posts: 2726
Registered: 08/31/2003
Time spent: 0 hours

(Date Posted:09/06/2004 03:45:36)

..........The 45 ACP Mauser took another step forward today when I finally completed (vacation got in the way) the milling fixture to hold the action while I whacked out a portion of it's mid section.A rather disreputable small ring 1894 Brazilain Mauser action posing all restrained in the fixture.The fixture base is set up to accomodate a M98 action also, but I don't have a threaded sleeve made for one yet. I turned the drill rod to .703" and it's a REALLY snug fit in the action. To make sure it fit's in any Mauser (large ring/small ring both use the same bolt diameter) I should probably take another couple thou off'em. Before I drilled the holes for the sockethead screws I centerpunched. Seems the thing to do, eh? However the raised metal around the punchmarks pretty securely tied up the drill rod in the action so I couldn't get the dang things out. I went and had a beer. I just decided to drill'em in place holding it all together with some 'C' clamps and THAT was a major pain. Everywhere I wanted to be, there was a C clamp.The action is very secure at this point. Milling out a section will tell for sure. I'd thought about making some pieces to wedge between the feed rails, but since Mausers vary so much I really don't have a good idea how to go about it. Once the endmill cuts through a rail I thought it might benefit from some additional support. Rather then mess with it at this point, tomorrow I'm just gonna try it and see what happens.This is the action in a 'Try' fixture to test feeding. I'm going to use this action if all goes well on the EXPENDABLE one. Looks like I can remove a RCH more then an inch. Then I'll have to cut the bolt and firing pin, etc and weld'em back together along with the action. I don't have a barrel for it yet. Montana Rifleman want's $80 for a .451" blank with my choice of twist. I'm thinking a 20 to 22" bbl. What twist do you guys think it needs? I called Boyds about getting an uninletted stock for it, but right now, getting the action sectioned and welded back together is the main thing. Should this fixture work out okay tomorrow, and I'm pretty sure it will, if anyone wants to borrow it, that would be fine for round trip shipping. ............Buckshot

--------------------------------------------------------------
Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner

starmetal	31#
Registered:09/21/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/25/2005 07:11:10) Buckshot I don't know if you ever disassembled a Luger but the firing mechanism on it is hardly anything at all. It's a striker system and basicaly is the firing pin with a spring around it and the left receiver rail catches a little notch in the striker assembly to hold it back. Thing is it doesn't move very much, not too much more then 3/16's of an inch and the spring isn't very stiff at all. To me it's amazing it dents a primer. So...maybe you don't need all that much firing pin travel and spring strength. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------- VENIT HORA "THE HOUR HAS COME"

Marc1	32#
Rank:none Score:157 Posts:157 Registered:10/01/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/25/2005 16:21:26) Buckshot, Maybe the way to go is to convert the bolt to cock on opening. That way you could reduce firing pin travel, increase the spring strength and still be able to cock it. By shortening the firing pin you are lightening it also which should decrease the necessary spring strength for ignition. Starmetal may be on to something else. If you use pistol primers you don't need as strong a firing pin blow as for rifle primers. Of course you may want to use the rifle primers to be able to run higher pressures. Interesting project! Hope you get it resolved.

Buckshot2	33#
Rank:none Score:2726 Posts:2726 Registered:08/31/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/26/2005 06:06:03) ................The main problem is compressed (cocked) length. Thoughts have revolved around dual springs, one inside the other, adding spring length by shortening up the pin fall, lightening the firing pin to increase speed by turning down it's diameter between the front deflector and the keys on the back. This would also allow coil springs with a heavier cross section. ................Buckshot -------------------------------------------------------------- Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner

starmetal	34#
Registered:09/21/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/26/2005 06:34:31) Buckshot Getting back to that Luger again. The firing pin on it is big and heavy and the spring is rather thin and light. Makes me think that if you get a heavy pin moving with light spring, even though the speed is slow, it carries alot of momentum. I'm telling you, if you saw my Lugers firing pins/spring system you would bet me it wouldn't work. Like I said not only is the sping light, the total distance it moves is remarkably small. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------- VENIT HORA "THE HOUR HAS COME"

lar45	35#
Rank:none Score:589 Posts:589 Registered:02/16/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/26/2005 21:04:02) Buckshot, what is the overall length of your shortened fireing pin? -------------------------------------------------------------- More Powder, Bigger Bullets Lar www.herb-store.com/lgw/howda http://members.fortunecity.com/howda

Buckshot2	36#
Rank:none Score:2726 Posts:2726 Registered:08/31/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/27/2005 09:16:06) Reply to : lar45 Buckshot, what is the overall length of your shortened fireing pin? .............I dunno, I'll have to check. It's whatever stock length is minus 1.110" as the action and bolt were both shortened that distance. The problem is in assembly. In this photo full extended (cocking piece is inside bolt shroud) there is plenty of room for a spring. When cocked, the distance is about 1.5". Still plenty of room for a compressed spring to drive the firing pin. In assembling the parts the mainspring goes on the firingpin and then the firing pin goes into the boltshroud. The left end of the firingpin with the keys, has to extend far enough out beyond the boltshroud to allow the cocking piece to be put on. This means the firingpin now only has about 1" of length between the 2 points. In that case, I have no doubt you could find a spring that would compress to a 1" length for assembly, and then at a 1.5" cocked length still have enough juice to drive the firing pin forward with enough effort to fire the primer. But I think that cocking effort would be substantial. To gain length I can 1) Shorten the nose on the bolt shroud a couple threads (gain about 1/4") and 2) Mill away a section of the right hand portion of the boltshroud sleeve, which is that portion facing us in the photo. An idea put forward which has merit is to turn the gas flange off and then groove the firing pin and use an E clip to retain the spring. Don't know how that would hold up. ................Buckshot -------------------------------------------------------------- Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner

starmetal	37#
Registered:09/21/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/27/2005 15:35:01) Buckshot I took my 98 Mauser bolt apart and was looking it over. We talked about the flange on the front of the firing pin that retains the spring from moving forward. If you notice that ahead of that flange the pin gets small again and then finally tapers down to the firing pin tip. The reason that flang is back that far on a 98 is because of the two gas slots in the bolt body. Even when the firing pin is all the way forward that flange is still not past the gas slot. On the 98 you can gain at least one inch moving that flange forward. Just drill the bolt forward the correct size too. I know your project isn't the 98 action but they are very similar. I don't think you are going to have a major case failure and personally don't think there is enough powder in a 45acp case to really blow that much wrecking gas back and if it did rupture I still think it can escape. About the C-clip you were talking about doing after cutting off the gasflange. Is that clip going to be holding the firing pin in the bolt body? If so you might think about one of the criticisms of the 1903 Sprinfield was it's replaceable firing pin tip. It too has a clip retainer system and it was said that should that clip break that firing pin shot straight back into your face. Don't know if they ever had that happen, but it's not a comforting thought. Give moving that flange forward idea a thought. I think that if you did that you wouldn't have to mess with the rest of the bolt and firing pin. Would one extra 3/4 to 1 inch give you enough then? Joe -------------------------------------------------------------- VENIT HORA "THE HOUR HAS COME"

Marc1	38#
Rank:none Score:157 Posts:157 Registered:10/01/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/27/2005 16:28:06) Buckshot, You wrote: "But I think that cocking effort would be substantial." That is why I suggested the cock on opening conversion. I don't have a small ring but the 98 looks like it has about a 5/8" firing pin fall. My Rem 700 and Win 70's look to have about 1/4" of firing pin fall. Much less travel but then they cock on opening. If you stay with the cock on closing, the camming surfaces inside the receiver ring that the bolt lugs ride on will also help compress the spring. I don't know how much help that would give you. Another approach would be to modify the firing pin so you can install the spring from the front end. Win and Rem use a washer and c-clip at the front of the spring to retain the firing pin. It may well work the way you originally intended too.

starmetal	39#
Registered:09/21/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/27/2005 21:17:32) Buckshot Okay, you said you can't move that shoulder much forward in the bolt, I disagree,....but here's another theory to throw at you. You said the spring gets solid trying to assemble it on the firing pin due to the nature of how the mauser firing pin goes together. How about this, let me ask you if it only trying to get it together/apart that is the problem and that if it was on there it would function???? Here's what I am getting after. put the firing pin together without the spring on, THEN wind the spring on...and you know what I mean...start it on towards the shroud end first ending up then near the front collar. Please inform me of what you think on that idea. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------- VENIT HORA "THE HOUR HAS COME"

lar45	40#
Rank:none Score:589 Posts:589 Registered:02/16/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/28/2005 21:12:31) I vote for Starmetal's Idea. Put it all together and twist the spring on from the front. -------------------------------------------------------------- More Powder, Bigger Bullets Lar www.herb-store.com/lgw/howda http://members.fortunecity.com/howda

starmetal	41#
Registered:09/21/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/28/2005 22:25:58) God's sake, someone voted for my idea....gotta be something wrong with it then. hahahahaha. Joe P.S. Buckshot, still waiting for your opinion on this one. -------------------------------------------------------------- VENIT HORA "THE HOUR HAS COME"

slughammer	42#
Rank:none Score:69 Posts:69 Registered:07/22/2004 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/29/2005 02:12:39) How about the recoil spring from a G-lock? The G-lock recoil spring is flat wound wire and may compress/expand enough to work.

ammohead	43#
Registered:02/24/2004 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/29/2005 06:11:22) Reply to : Buckshot2 ................The main problem is compressed (cocked) length. Thoughts have revolved around dual springs, one inside the other, adding spring length by shorteningup the pin fall, lightening the firing pin to increase speedby turning down it's diameter between the front deflector and the keys on the back. This would also allow coil springs with a heavier cross section.................Buckshot Too bad you already welded the bolt back together. Some sort of threaded or pinned connection would let you assemble the rear part of the bolt and then attach the front. We have already determined that everything behind the locking lugs has no need for superior strength. Got any extra Century bolts laying around? ammohead -------------------------------------------------------------- hunt harder, get closer

ammohead	44#
Registered:02/24/2004 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/29/2005 06:20:05) Reply to : ammohead Reply to : Buckshot2................The main problem is compressed (cocked) length. Thoughts have revolved around dual springs, one inside the other, adding spring length by shorteningup the pin fall, lightening the firing pin to increase speedby turning down it's diameter between the front deflector and the keys on the back. This would also allow coil springs with a heavier cross section.................BuckshotToo bad you already welded the bolt back together. Some sort of threaded or pinned connection would let you assemble the rear part of the bolt and then attach the front. We have already determined that everything behind the locking lugs has no need for superior strength. Got any extra Century bolts laying around?ammohead Sorry folks just disassembled one and see the error of my ways. I'll work on it. ammohead -------------------------------------------------------------- hunt harder, get closer

ammohead	45#
Registered:02/24/2004 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/29/2005 06:36:25) Reply to : ammohead Reply to : ammoheadReply to : Buckshot2................The main problem is compressed (cocked) length. Thoughts have revolved around dual springs, one inside the other, adding spring length by shorteningup the pin fall, lightening the firing pin to increase speedby turning down it's diameter between the front deflector and the keys on the back. This would also allow coil springs with a heavier cross section.................BuckshotToo bad you already welded the bolt back together. Some sort of threaded or pinned connection would let you assemble the rear part of the bolt and then attach the front. We have already determined that everything behind the locking lugs has no need for superior strength. Got any extra Century bolts laying around?ammoheadSorry folks just disas Tried threading the spring on from the front. It would require some modification to the flange to get the spring started but once on should stay on. -------------------------------------------------------------- hunt harder, get closer

starmetal	46#
Registered:09/21/2003 Time spent: 0 hours	(Date Posted:03/29/2005 06:57:35) Ammohead You don't thread it on like that. It's hard to explain. You start in the middle then when started push the started portion towards the shroud end. It might help to clip that first close coil at the very end unless it doesn't have that. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------- VENIT HORA "THE HOUR HAS COME"

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