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http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/topstory/3005716?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" />st1ate Month="1" Day="24" Year="2005">Jan. 24, 2005/st1ate>,12:06PM

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Police need not make the "sacrifice" of getting naked and sampling the illegal wares.  The key to eliminating the alleged problem is found in the phrase used in the story, "Sex Workers Outreach Program USA".  If Houston would make prostitution legal and require each establishment to display a sign reading, "Sex Workers" , the businesses would fail because of lack of interest.  "Sex Workers" carries PC to an unattractively Orwellian level.  curmudgeon

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Reply to : willshttp://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/topstory/3005716?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" />st1ate Month="1" Day="24" Year="2005">Jan. 24, 2005/st1ate>,12:06PMPolice need not make the "sacrifice" of getting naked and sampling the illegalwares. The key to eliminating the alleged problem is found in the phrase used in the story, "Sex Workers Outreach Program USA". If Houston would make prostitution legal and require each establishment to display a sign reading, "Sex Workers" , the businesses would fail because of lack of interest. "SexWorkers"carries PC to an unattractivelyOrwellian level.&nb

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I was thinking something along those same lines. It's a non-problem. Some people, a few, are always going to participate no matter what the law does. The vast majority of people ignore it completely. I think it is a sad thing that we allow law enforcement to entrap people. Bad enough that they use the majority of effort on crimes that are punishable by fines (traffic, prostitution) instead of crimes against people (burglary, assault, robbery). We have legalized prostitution here and the only time we hear or think about it is when some over zealous new-comer starts writting letters to the paper saying we ought to do away with it. It will be gone in a few years, but from lack of interest, not a sudden attack of morality.

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Reply to : NVcurmudgeonReply to : willshttp://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/topstory/3005716?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" />st1ate Month="1" Day="24" Year="2005">Jan. 24, 2005/st1ate>,12:06PMPolice need not make the "sacrifice" of getting naked and sampling the illegalwares. The key to eliminating the alleged problem is found in the phrase used in the story, "Sex Workers Outreach Program USA". If Houston would make prostitution legal and require each establishment to display a sign reading, "Sex Workers" , the businesses would fail because of lack of interest. "SexWorkers"carries PC to an unattractivelyOrwellian level.&nbI was think

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As luck would have it.... Saturday I finally got a letter from the sheriff telling me to come in and pick up my long awaited CCW. (Ten months!!! He had previously issued me a temporary card) While sitting in the outer office waiting (Never did get in), we were joined by three ladies and a security guard from the Chicken Ranch, who were also in for some business with the sheriff. We didn't talk but they conducted themselves OK. Their mode of dress was obviously intended to advertise their business. Only in Nevada.....

I am very conflicted when it comes to prostitution enforcement.  Essentially, vice enforcement places cops in the Constitutionally-suspect position of policing morality, which is problematic at best. 

This from a few years back--the US Department of Justice estimates that the amount of money spent on prostitution yearly is about 7 times their total annual budget.  How they arrived at that figure I have no idea--but there it is.  The source was an FBI agent speaking at a meeting I attended c. 1999. 

That is a bunch of money.  That means people want the services--although they aren't real forthcoming publicly about those preferences.  What is really lacking about this subject is FACTS--due to the morality overtones involved, anyone involved in the issue deeply gets agenda-driven real fast--sorta like war.  And in any war on any level, truth is the first casualty of battle. 

One of the classic questions involving prostitution is the issue of involuntary induction of persons into the practice as "sex workers".  This has been called "white slavery", "assignation", and a few other terms dreamed up to enable headlines minus censorship.  This does exist to some extent and in varying depth--mostly clearly among street prostitutes and the control/protection elements that exist in that sub-culture--pimps and procurers, usually.  Utilizing and manipulating the weak/disadvantaged status of (usually) an underaged female--some combination of runaway juvenile, hunger, drug abuse, AND FORMER SEXUAL VICTIMIZATION IN SOME WAY, these predators enlist their victims into providing sexual favors for street clientele or (less frequently) arranged encounters.  The dynamics of the prostitute/procurer relationship are as individual as the people involved--but it boils down to some form of trade-off of protection and client management for the prostitute in exchange for some portion of the proceeds of the prostitute's activities with those clients. 

Two constants of life for the sex worker--1) this trade is enormously profitable, one BIG reason for pimps to enlist and exploit prostitutes as they often do and 2) the clients are occasionally quite predatory.  You have probably noted that street prostitutes figure highly in the annals of serial killer activities.  Life for a prostitute at any level--from street rat to high class call girl--involves a balancing act of need for security vs. access to the money faucet that prostitution can be.  There are a LOT of assaults and some homicides related to this business activity--and legalizing it won't change that fact of life one iota.  ANY time you have a cash-intensive business activity that is almost pure profit and is as lucrative as prostitution can be--you will have people at every level attempting to short-circuit the cash flow equation via violence. 

My agency handled the problem during the time I was assigned to this venue by responding to complaints.  There were only a few forms of complaint--citizens calling in about obvious types of activities--streetwalkers stopping cars in mid-block, complaints about being solicited, clients getting "hugger-muggered" while en flagrante delicto (usually truckers in rest stops), and (far less often) massage parlor patrons anonymously claiming to have been deprived of cash during the session.  How much of this was "buyer's regret" and how much genuine theft actually took place is a crap-shoot. 

I think most prostitution enforcement is complaint-driven.  If the parlors are becoming frequent fixtures in a city or locality, it sort of makes an area look seedy.  They make wonderful cash washes for ill-gotten gain from other criminal activities, although of limited utility in that respect since the Feds are getting pretty good at detecting money laundering ventures.  The world's oldest profession is just kind of tawdry in the general public's view, and is something that many want decriminalized--just not in the vicinity of their home or business.  There is a definite level of violence associated with the activity, either to enforce discipline within the sub-culture or to deflect/discourage depredations by clients or other low-life venture capitalists. 

Per this FBI guy, at the time of the meeting that agency's view was that Nevada's legalized prostitution was in a slow decline.  I dunno what it's like now.  My last experience in this venue was at the prostitution raid at the golf course in Norco a couple years ago--that one made national news for days.  The sex workers were pretty high-end players, and I was flabbergasted at the prices they got for the acts solicited.  I make a pretty good dollar, but there is no way I could afford that sort of entertainment.

I don't have any answers--just more questions every time the subject comes up.  There can be elements of enslavement in some cases where sex workers are involved--and violence is part and parcel of the business, largely due to the cash flow it generates and the client type it attracts.  In interviews with prostitutes--and most of them speak very freely about what they do--almost every one of them cites/claims former victimization via child molestation or other uninvited sexual contact at a very young age.  Food for thought, there. 

Does this justify keeping it illegal?  That's a call for the citizens to make--I just work here.       

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I am very conflicted when it comes to prostitution enforcement. Essentially, vice enforcement places cops in the Constitutionally-suspect position of policing morality, which is problematic at best.This from a few years back--the US Department of Justice estimates that the amount of money spent on prostitution yearly is about 7 times their total annual budget. How they arrived at that figure I have no idea--but there it is. The source was an FBI agent speaking at a meeting I attended c. 1999.That is a bunch of money. That means people want the services--although they aren't real forthcoming publicly about those preferences. What is really lacking about this subject is FACTS--due to the morality overtones involved, anyone involved in the issue deeply gets agenda-driven real fast--sorta like war. And in a

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I have always heard that it was the churches who pushed the police on prostitution. Seems to me that most of the violence you mention would all be covered under other laws, such as assault, kidnapping, drugs, etc. Selling sex for money doesn't seem all that bad to me. Consider: Who would you rather jail, a hooker or a guy who sells things to poor and old people, things they don't need. Or a guy who sells furniture, cars, etc, at a gross overprice, on high rate credit to minorities. Or anyone who sells liquor for that matter; they have killed and orphaned (?) millions more than prostitutes ever will. And lastly, who is the biggest threat to civilization, the honest prostitue, working for an honest living by doing what she does best,  or  the welfare mothers producing more and more parasites to suck the life blood out of society. I'd sure like to hear what Jumptrap thinks on this subject...

I don't mind the prostitution part, it's the violence that surrounds the trade that concerns me.  Much the same can be said for narcotics trafficking--although with narcotics, I don't think society should be forced to pay for housing, feeding, and medical care of those who choose to gork out on whatever racing fuel an addict chooses. 

Yes, there are laws that address specific incidents of violence, but in absence of the attractant--the cash flow produced by these activities--the violence would likely not occur in the first place.  Overall, the whole sub-culture is suffused with addictions--often, it's a case of sex addicts preying on drug addicts who are preying right back on the customers financially--a pathological co-dependency that dehumanizes all involved. 

Is criminal prosecution the answer?  Probably not--but like a lot of other issues that no one has a ready answer for socially speaking, the legislatures respond with their usual default setting of criminalizing the activity and handing off the matter to the orderers to resolve.  That's what happens when yer the only people who even pick up the phone at 3 A.M., then actually send someone out to see what's going on. 

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And now the defendants

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/front/3101557

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What idiots. 

A cell phone exam might be justified in a drug dealing or prostitution case, and if you plan on using what you find in court--the exam better be preceded by a search warrant.  If the justification is there, the warrant will issue.  This is a blatant invasion of privacy followed by a degrading display of confidential material, and had this happened at my agency I believe the personnel involved would likely be fired.  There could indeed be MUCH more to the story, and newspapers have a vested interest in spinning the story--but as it stands from the story text, these guys screwed up by the numbers. 

In my county (in Nevada) we had two brothels that closed for various reasons.

Some people got together in a group to repeal the law (in the elections last November) which permits brothels in our county.

This even made the front page of the Wall Street Journal.

They were defeated by a two to one margin.

Nevada. What a great state. Where else would your CCW allow you to carry your hogleg into a brothel? 

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In my county (in Nevada) we had two brothels that closed for various reasons.Some people got together in a group to repeal the law (in the elections last November) which permits brothels in our county.This even made the front page of the Wall Street Journal.They were defeated by a two to one margin.Nevada. What a great state. Where else would your CCW allow you to carry your hogleg into a brothel?

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Gentlemen - Please tell me a bit about living in Nevada. I'm figuring on selling out here in about four years, and have been figuring on moving to eastern Montana. But I have no anchor in my ass.

What kind of price would you give for a two bedroom ranch out in no-town no where, where you could shoot, and what are the hunting opportunities? What is the water situation like? General weather?

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Gentlemen - Please tell me a bit about living in Nevada. I'm figuring on selling out here in about four years, and have been figuring on moving to eastern Montana. ButI have no anchor in my ass.What kind of price would you give for a two bedroom ranch out in no-townno where, where you could shoot, and what are the hunting opportunities? What is the water situation like? General weather?

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Well, the small farm communities are definitely more to my tastes. As far as a gambling problem, I have bought maybe twenty lottery tickets over the years, and maybe donated a hundred bucks to the machines. There are half assed casinos on every corner around here, and I find them very easy to resist.

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Ken, I did consider Alaska, but I am getting to where the winters aren't as enjoyable as they used to be. I have a standing job offer up there to guide for an old friend, but I got tired of babysitting pilgrims years ago. I also pointed out to him I didn't know the country, but he told me he hasn't ever seen me get lost, yet, and I know critters pretty well. First time for everything, though.

I know the southeast area of Alaska actually has nicer winters than I get here, but there is the trade off of all the rain. I have other friends at Homer with a fishing business, who've also offered a job.

Never can tell, where I'll end up!

"Your biggest problem might be getting used to indoor plumbing.... Someone sent me an email and said to tell you there were a lot of sheep here. Don't know what he meant."

You mean go to the toilet, right in the same building that you eat in? How disgusting!

That email was probably from some Texan. They are always trying to inflict thier bad habits upon others. He probably hangs out with gay sheep. 

Gianni, I do like New Mexico, but thier winters have been worse than ours the last couple years, at least in the Santa Fe area. Which is too big. I'm sure there are some lower elevations that wouldn't be bad, but there is also the huge influx of illegals down in that part of the country.

Joe, if the griz ain't got me yet, I'm not too worried about them. Heck, I don't even carry a rifle to the outhouse after dark. But some young bucks really do need to be doing that kind of work. I'm more of the type who needs to set by the fire with his feet up, and lend background color to the setting.

Two places you will not find me, are Denver, or Texas. Colorado is too wacky liberal, and Texas is going to end up being a fully Mexican state before I die. I've heard of problems with Arizona, by snowbirds who have property down there.

I'm not set up worth a damn for retirement. I've been an artist for quite a few years, and cowboying, horse shoeing, and logging don't build up that much money. Plus the fact an X wife tends to walk away with a hell of a lot. I was lucky to save the property I'm on. I'm just glad she didn't know how much it would increase in value.

You're probably right. I may just become a snowbird. wearing white shorts and Hawaiian shirts. Why the hell do old farts wear that stuff? Is it a required uniform?

As far as four months go, better make it six. An old timer told me, in Montana there are always six months of winter. You just don't know which ones they will be. And he is right.

I picked up a four hole Saeco .35 cal, 250ish gr. mold today. I feel a test run coming up in the morning. The guy I got it from, has wandered to this board recently in his search for knowledge, so I encouraged him to become active. It sounds like there is a pretty active bunch of lead shooters in his area.

I did see four, .40 cal LBT rifle molds there, for $40 a pop. I still may go back to the show tomorrow, to put them on Ebay.

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You're probably right.I may just become a snowbird. wearing white shorts and Hawaiian shirts. Why the hell do old farts wear that stuff? Is it a required uniform?As far as four months go, better make it six. An old timer told me, in Montana there are always six months of winter. You just don't know which ones they will be. And he is right.I picked up a four hole Saeco .35 cal, 250ish gr. mold today.I feel a test run coming up in the morning. The guy I got it from, has wandered to this board recently in his search for knowledge, soI encouraged him to become active. It sounds like there is a pretty active bunch of lead shooters in his area.I did see four, .40 cal LBTrifle molds there, for $40 a pop. I still may go back to the show tomorrow, to put them on Ebay.

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Last time I stayed in Laughlin, 5 or 6 years ago, I talked to an old lady working in the gift shop. She said she and her husband owned a farm in Iowa, but came out to Nevada to spend the winter. They both had nice jobs at the casino, lived in one of the hotel rooms there at a discount price. She said they had a lot of time off, enjoyed the good food, and actually had money to take home when spring came.  Locally, we have several parks of snowbirds in their trailers and 5th wheelers. And I for one really find it strange to see a 70 year old box boy in the local supermarkets. But that's all you see, no young people; just senior citizens supplementing their Social Security checks working at Smiths, Albersons, WalMart, Ace Hardware, et al. Don't know why I find this interesting but this is the second edition to this particular reply since the original, about 5 hours ago. Got the real solution this time. You seem to be a fairly vigarous man for your age. The best place for you would be Arizona in the winter, the Phoenix/Tucson area. Reason being there's a lot of rich widows winter over there. Guaranteed there'd be at least one that'd like to keep you around. Three hots and a flop, all winter, and probably some new toys to take back to Montana when the wild flowers start blooming and the trout streams thaw out.