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Title: Need some Help 1866 Sharps Buisness Rifle
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MGySgt
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(Date Posted:07/09/2004 02:05:56)

I just purchased a used 1866 Sharps Business Rifle (EMF) any bubby got any idea where I can find a manual on how to field strip this thing for cleaning???????45/70 of course - looks like a good cast bullet shooter!Thanks for the help!Drew

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Big Bore - What Else - 45/70

waksupi
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(Date Posted:07/09/2004 03:08:12)

Drew- I've never set eyes on that particular make before. However, assuming that it follows the original patent pretty closely, this should get it apart.

On the right hand front of the action, you will see a little lever gizmo. In front of this, there should be a spring loaded keeper. Depress the keeper, and swing the lever forward. Work it back and forth, and it should come out without too much difficulty.

The block can then be removed. When you remove it, do it slowly, and pay attention to how the extractor fits the block. Otherwise, you will be swearing when you try to re-assemble.

If the firing pin is like the original patent, it should be easily removable. It would be a one piece forging that slides into it's mortise.

I know my Pedersoli has a three piece firing pin in it, which is supposed to be an improvement, as the original pattern are prone to breakage. I've not taken it apart to see how it goes together, but from past experiences with my old business rifle, I ordered three spare firing pins.

If you are new to Sharps, always have the hammer on half cock when opening the block, as this is the main cause of pin breakage. Also, if you have a developed load that suddenly goes sour, the firing pin is the first place to look on a Sharps.

Have fun with it, they are a kick!

 

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Shooters Cast Bullet Alumnus

MGySgt
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(Date Posted:07/09/2004 04:30:40)

Reply to : waksupi

Drew- I've never set eyes on that particular make before. However, assuming that it follows the original patent pretty closely, this should get it apart.On the right hand front of the action, you will see a little lever gizmo. In front of this, there should be a spring loaded keeper. Depress the keeper, and swing the lever forward. Work it back and forth, and it should come out without too much difficulty.The block can then be removed. When you remove it, do it slowly, and pay attention to how the extractor fits the block. Otherwise, you will be swearing when you try to re-assemble.If the firing pin is like the original patent, it should be easily removable. It would be a one piece forging that slides into it's mortise.I know my Pedersoli has a three piece firing pin in it, which is supposed to be an improvement, as the original pa

That was it - And I thought that was how it came apart.  I have a Ruger No 1 and yes, the extractor can give you problems if you are not carefull. 

I had a heck of a time getting the pin to come out, I had to drift it out.  So much for being able to field strip it without tools.

The 1866 is basicly the same as the 1863 black powder paper cartridge Sharps, however it has an extractor and is chambered for a brass cartridge.

Of course I learned this after I got home with it and started looking for an OM for it and nothing matched the hammer set up for the 1874.

The rifle has a 28 in octogon barrel with set triggers and SAFTEY.  When you drop the breech block it causes a part to come over and block the hammer from stricking the firing pin, just like the saftey bar on the new Rugers.  Took me a while to figure out the thing had a saftey when it wouldn't pop a primer in a primed empty case.  I always check the finring pins that way in a used gun.

The tang sight needs to be replaced and so does the rear.  But I was able to get it on target with the rear sight at 50 and it shows promise with 25 gr 2400, dacron and a 430 gr MM.

I think the 25 grain load is going to be the high end with this rifle.  But it should still give me enough for Elk in CO.  I bought this specificly to hunt with.  Where I go in CO the horses do all the walking and carrying the heavy load.

Thank you for the quick response and the help, I really didn't want to bugger things up by going completly blind on the first attempt.

And this will probably not be my last Sharps - I love the way the Shiloh Sharps look, just can't see the $$ right now for one.  My wife is already upset that it is not the 1874, because she knows I will not rest until I get one, Oh well 6 45/70's is better then 5.

Drew

 

 

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Big Bore - What Else - 45/70

Buckshot2
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(Date Posted:07/09/2004 10:06:43)

............Gunny, what you have is a Sharps made by I.A.B in Italy. I believe it stands for (be kind to my Italianization and spelling) Industria de Armas, Brescia. These are not in the same league of manufacture as the Sharps Old Reliable, or Shiloh Sharps, and are usually held in lower regard then the Pedersoli repros.

Until recently all these models came with the Percussion hammer conversion to utilize self contained metallic cartridges vs paper cartridges. The reason was manufacturing costs as this company also offered the paper cartridge version too. You can order parts from GPC and in their catalog they have an exploded parts diagram.

While the outside fit and finish is pretty consistant, the internal finishing of some parts was (in the past) not always up to snuff. A friend of mine bought one and the set triggers were dead soft and in-operable until he had them hardened and reground. Another seemingly simple problem to rectify, but aggravating was that the hammer would rub against the sideplate, and the shape of the triggerguard-lever was sometimes odd (lacking the reverse curve at the end).

While I have written some negatives, most of these dealt with the earlier production rifles. I was able to pick mine out of a batch of 4 by driving down to EMF in Orange County here in So. Calif. I don't know if they are the sole importers any longer as I have seen several different versions of the IAB Sharps in the past couple of years.

At EMF, all there imported firearms were inspected by their gunsmith before it was available for sale. I was shown the 4 Sharps they had avail that day. I've had this rifle for probably 10-12 years now. It's wood to metal fit is at least V good+, if not excellent. The case colors are simply brilliant. Compared to most Pedersoli's I've seen, the color and brilliance of my IAB is like a carnival midway in comparison to the other's washed out and dingy 'grayness'. I also have a Pedersoli Super Match rolling block and it's case colors almost don't qualify as 'Colors' by comparison. I've seen many other similar Pedersoli's too.

Mine was also in 45-70 and in all honesty the accuracy was dismal. The reason was a very long throat and leade. A "Lawyer's" setup, if you like. There was nothing at all wrong with the bore, as it was a bright and smooth as glass. I guess I could have done nothing but shoot paper patched 500gr + cast lead boolits to fill the windage, but I'm not man enough to stand up to much of that fun, just for fun .

I had my gunsmith run a 45-90 reamer into it, and that cured all the accuracy ills. The rifle shoots with accuracy as fine as you could ask for. I would have no problem putting this rifle up against ANY Sharps for accuracy with smokless loads.

On the old Shooters.Com BPCR board there was a poster who was the personal representative of the IAB company's owner, in the U.S. Not as an importer but as a correspondent and kind of info gatherer (spy? ). I don't recall now, but I must have responded to a post on the board and got an e-mail from this 'rep'. He asked me several questions after identifying himself and his capacity for Mr? (I sure don't recall the owners name). Mr.X was coming over for a visit and to see several BPCR shoots around the country.

He was concerned by the slow sales. The rep informed him it was because of the poor visual appearance of his rifles compared to the other 3 Sharps repros, plus the on and off quality issues. The rep told me that part of the problem is that IAB isn't a company like Pedersoli who manufactures the entire rifle 'inhouse'. IAB is a consortium of small companies who manufacture the various components. IAB has people who do the fit and finish part and final assembly.

While strength and safety have never been at issue, the rep said that IAB had difficulty in supplying to their contractors exactly what it was they were wanting. The IAB rep said that Mr.X had
obtained a couple Sharps repro's and an original he was taking back to Italy for them to use, since prints were apparently not to be found. Reverse engineering I guess.

Of recent IAB Sharps I've seen, the most marked improvement has been the replacement of the 1859 percussion hammer on cartridge rifles with the 1874 type. Also their rather odd treatment of the Hartford barrel coller has been rectified. My rifle still has the 1859 type hammer. While my rifle has the mentioned bright case colors, and a very nice piece of wood both in grain and finish, the barrel has a 'matte' finish . Rather odd compared to the rest of the rifle. I have always thought I'd polish it and have it reblued. Heck, it shoots like a lazer so why bother?

BTW, Dave Gullo who owns Buffalo Arms hunts with an IAB Sharps.

.............Buckshot

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Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner

MGySgt
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(Date Posted:07/09/2004 14:41:36)

Thanks Buckshot -

Yes the color Case is better then most I have seen and it appears that the set triggers has something to be desired with adjustability.  Probably have to have them hardened and reground as you suggest.  The set trigger sure is light, good thing the first round out was pointed in the right direction when I touched that trigger.  It appears safe as far as not going off by it's self, but it sure is light.  (cocked it and banged the butt real hard a few times)

I sent e-mail the other day to both EMF and IAB but as of yet I have not received any response from either one of them.  Hopefully one of them will respond with the date of manufacture and some other information on it. 

You stated you had it rechambered to 45/90, I guess I am going to have to make a casting of the chamber to see what kind of throat it has. 

Maybe I can have Dan (of MM) make a mold for it that would allow for the long lead/throat provided it is not too long.  I live in good old Virginia and I don't know of any gunsmiths around here that I would trust to rechamber anything, let alone this rifle.

I have 2 different molds for the 45/70 (both MM) in 430 gr maybe one will fit, or I can polish out one a few thou to make it fit the lead better, but I just have to wait and see.  (I do have a 462 sizer die for my Lyman 450, don't know why, it is marked 459, but the boolits come out 461+)

It is going to be a few months before I can get my casting setup back in production we are moving the homestead about 90 miles south, just below Petersburg, I work in Richmond and the drive to work will actually be about 14 miles shorter, BUT I can put a 200plus yard range in to do a lot of my load development and practice shooting and the place will be paid for.

Thanks to both you and waksupi for your help and information.

Drew

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Big Bore - What Else - 45/70

Bull Shop
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(Date Posted:07/09/2004 18:45:41)

If anyone is interested in one of These I have one imported by Taylors. I got it from Butch Clendenin over in Amidon ND His wife Linda won it in a shoot. Whow that girl can shoot. Think she shot top woman and second or third over all at the Quigley this year. Did I mention they are shooting Bull Shop #2 BP lube Anyway as was said it has very nice case colors and wood, double triggers, Lyman globe front with incerts, import vernier tang, and Lorence style rear barrel sights with slider. It has been rechambered to 45/3.25" and comes with a set of dies and one box of brass but one is missing so I believe there are 19. When I moved back to AK I took it as partial trade for several ton of lead I couldnt haul. It is like new condition except for a small scratch on the stock at the wrist . I gave Butch $600.00 off tward the lead so thats what I want + shipping which I guess will be around $25.00 to 30.00.

BIC/BS 

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