Maven
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1#
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Rank:none
Score:360
Posts:360
Registered:10/01/2003
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(Date Posted:03/13/2005 22:57:49)
Two corrections to the above: First, GP-11 is Berdan primed. Second, .284Win. may still be available from Black Hills Shooter's Supply and Natchez, I think. Check the Swiss Rifles site for these suppliers. ...Maven
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starmetal
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2#
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Registered:09/21/2003
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(Date Posted:03/13/2005 23:11:20)
Paul,
Guess that means Graf's other non common military brass will dry up also. That's a real bummer. I'm really sorry to hear that as many of these old rifles are a joy to shoot.
Joe
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VENIT HORA "THE HOUR HAS COME"
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45 2_1
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3#
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Rank:none
Score:296
Posts:296
Registered:10/16/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/13/2005 23:53:35)
Maven-
The brass situation is not as bad as you think. Back in the 70's, it was DIFFICULT to find anything to shoot in them. You could pay a high price for Norma if you could even get any. The only producer in the U.S.A. was I.A.C. The 284 brass was a simple form job and lasts a very long time. Now you have GP-11, just saw at a gun show last saturday enough to break down a truck, with berdan primers available. We still have 284, FNM, Norma, I.A.C., Graff, and Swiiss boxer brass running around. Everybody should have gotten enough to last them a long time. I shot 284 brass for 30 years before the Graff stuff came along. This is one caliber that is not hurting for brass.
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45 2.1
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Maven
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4#
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Rank:none
Score:360
Posts:360
Registered:10/01/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/14/2005 01:14:46)
45 2_1, Yes, .284Win. brass is available for the moment, as is Norma and FNM if you say so, but Graf & Sons is out of 7.5 x 55mm for at least 6 mo's. i.e., until a new and possibly more reliable producer can be located. The shortage may be due to the political climate in Eastern Europe, "greed" on someone's part, or whatever explanations are au courant on the Swiss Rifles forum. I was able to order some .284Win. from Graf's this afternoon as a precautionary measure, however. Their supply of the other metric brass seems unaffected though. ...Maven
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shepherd2
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5#
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Rank:none
Score:37
Posts:37
Registered:05/15/2004
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(Date Posted:03/14/2005 03:04:09)
I just got Graf's wholesale flier a couple hours ago. They have 7.5x55 loaded ammo manufactured by Prvi Partizan. It is 174gr FMJ-BT boxer primed. The wholesale price is $10.99/20. I'd guess the price would be about $15.99/20 for non FFL buyers. If you're in a pinch you could buy some of that, fire it and reload the fired cases.
Luckily I added 100 7.5x55 cases to my last order from Graf's so I've got 200 cases to keep my K31s going plus a small stash of GP11 ammo.
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Buckshot2
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6#
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Rank:none
Score:2726
Posts:2726
Registered:08/31/2003
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(Date Posted:03/14/2005 04:08:12)
...........I just lost my first 8x56R case to a neck split. It's 6th firing and done from 2 different carbines. I think the Lee dies are the main culprit bcause they size the neck back down to hold a .329" condom, and after firing the caseneck will accpet a .338" slug.
I just got done opening up the size die neck to .332" and making a new expander/decaper to .334". Guess I orta anneal these 59 hangers on, eh?
...........Buckshot
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Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always
Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner
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kcso912
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7#
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Rank:none
Score:429
Posts:429
Registered:12/17/2003
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(Date Posted:03/14/2005 16:22:38)
Hornady has 7.5 loaded ammo also. The rumor I heard is that the Graf's supplier is selling brass to someone else for more money. One way or the other I am glad I bought 200 rounds of brass last month.
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jsh
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8#
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Registered:12/24/2002
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(Date Posted:03/16/2005 03:24:51)
You guys say the 284 brass is a PITA? I don't understand that. I mean, you just FL size the 284 brass in the 7.5x55 die and your done. I myself wish I had tried the 284 brass first. I ordered 100 from Graf's, the 7.5's. The bag showed up and there were a few less than 90 in it. Then I started inspecting the brass. Neck cracks and shoulders with lines in them that were wrinkles from drawing them from the cup. All in all for the $ put out, the Graf's brass was not worth the trouble. I would have to rate the Graf's brass about the same as the LEE dies, usable and not much more than that.
As to 284 being hard to find............ I would have to say you have not looked very much. If any of you cannot find 284 brass and want some, I would offer to come up with some for you.
Jeff
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jh45gun
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9#
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Rank:none
Score:147
Posts:147
Registered:09/01/2003
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(Date Posted:03/16/2005 09:25:04)
The 284 brass is out there for the looking though WIN only makes limited runs I see it for sale different places. Tha is what I am going to use I have found a supply of it at a local shop. Jim
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Said I never had much use for one, never said I did'nt know how to use it
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Buckshot2
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10#
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Rank:none
Score:2726
Posts:2726
Registered:08/31/2003
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(Date Posted:03/16/2005 09:31:32)
...........Got an e-mail from Kenjudo and he says Graf is also out of 7.62x54R.
...........Buckshot
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Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always
Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner
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Cayoot
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11#
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Rank:none
Score:3
Posts:3
Registered:03/18/2005
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(Date Posted:03/19/2005 02:27:22)
I guess that I don't understand....I've bought Graff brass, it was convienient, but the 284 Win brass has (in my neck of the woods at least) always been abundently available. Sizing the 284 Win brass is a simple one step process that I've been doing for years and, since I don't run hot pressures, the brass lasts quite a while.
I don't understand what the concern is. If anyone is haveing a real hard time getting 284 Win brass, I would be willing to get it and mail it to you as long as my costs were covered up front.
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Thanks From the Frozen Northwoods!
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of values."
--Albert Einstein
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BruceB
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12#
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Rank:none
Score:734
Posts:734
Registered:09/01/2003
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(Date Posted:03/19/2005 05:44:43)
Reply to : Cayoot
Glad to see you survived the trek over here.
Gentlemen, let me introduce Cayoot, a Yooper from Sault Ste. Marie, whom I met on the Smith-Wesson Forum. He was asking bullet-casting questions, and getting a very nice reception from the folks over there, but I suggested he come on over here for more input.
Welcome, Cayoot.
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Regards from BruceB in Nevada
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Buckshot2
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13#
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Rank:none
Score:2726
Posts:2726
Registered:08/31/2003
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(Date Posted:03/19/2005 15:28:51)
.................Cayoot, welcome to the board, sir!
....................Buckshot
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Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always
Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner
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Cayoot
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14#
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Rank:none
Score:3
Posts:3
Registered:03/18/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/19/2005 16:19:16)
Bruce,
Thank you very much for the gracious welcome! I have only been perusing this board for a few day, but already I'm astounded by the amount of knowledge that is available here. From what I can see, the folks who inhabit this forum are a helpful, great group of guys.
I also really like the way the website is designed and layed out. It is a very user-friendly environment.
This is my kind of place!
Buckshot,
Thanks so much...I can see that I will be spending more time on this forum than I originally anticipated....there is a lot of information to be gleaned here!
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Thanks From the Frozen Northwoods!
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of values."
--Albert Einstein
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Buckshot2
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15#
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Rank:none
Score:2726
Posts:2726
Registered:08/31/2003
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(Date Posted:03/20/2005 10:28:40)
.......................Cayoot, as an aside, have you ever heard of a group (musicians) called the De-yoopers (or simialr spelling-sounding)? It's a novelty band. Years ago a country station here locally would on occasion play a couple cuts off a tape. It might have been before CD's, but it WAS several years ago. One was titled, "The Second Week of Deercamp" and it was a hoot. There were a couple really good ones and one other was about a pickup truck but I don't recall the title.
Just though I'd ask.
........................Buckshot
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Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always
Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner
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Cayoot
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16#
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Rank:none
Score:3
Posts:3
Registered:03/18/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/20/2005 14:47:54)
Ohhhh Yeah, we all know Da Yoopers! They live in a town about 2 hours west of me. I think they have about 8 or 9 tapes out.
They are a real bunch of characters!
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Thanks From the Frozen Northwoods!
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of values."
--Albert Einstein
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wills
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17#
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Rank:none
Score:476
Posts:476
Registered:09/24/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/20/2005 15:22:00)
Reply to : Buckshot2
.......................Cayoot, as an aside, have you ever heard of a group (musicians) called the De-yoopers (or simialr spelling-sounding)? It's a novelty band. Years ago a country station here locally would on occasionplay a couple cuts off a tape. It might have been before CD's, but it WAS several years ago. One was titled, "The Second Week of Deercamp" and it was a hoot. There were a couple really good ones and one other was about a pickup truck but I don't recall the title.Just though I'd ask.........................Buckshot
http://lyrics.dct.sk/index.php/254345
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A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw.
A haw, haw, haw.
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Dan in Wa
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18#
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Rank:none
Score:17
Posts:17
Registered:02/02/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/20/2005 22:36:34)
Wills,
I can't get it up. No no no I mean can't get the link up. Am I doing something wrong?
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wills
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19#
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Rank:none
Score:476
Posts:476
Registered:09/24/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/20/2005 23:37:15)
Reply to : Dan in Wa
Wills,I can't get it up. No no no I mean can't get the link up. Am I doing something wrong?
I dont know; I can click on it and it works. If you search google for "second week of deer camp" you can find the lyrics pretty quick.
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A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw.
A haw, haw, haw.
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Maven
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20#
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Rank:none
Score:360
Posts:360
Registered:10/01/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/21/2005 02:13:20)
All, Da Youpers' lyrics to "Da 2nd Week of Deer Camp" are riotous! I had a good laugh over them. Now, with respect to 7.5 x 55mm brass, my Graf's order of 50 Winchester .284Win. empty cases (in a Win. plastic bag) arrived this PM and they're rather pretty: Very shiny, maybe 6-8 dinged mouths, but more metal burrs on the inside of the case where the [primer] flash hole was punched than Graf's own brand. Reforming is quite straightforward: Open the case mouth with a needle-nose plier, chamfer, lube the case neck & body, then run through the FL sizing and M-dies. I also annealed (air cooled this time) after reforming just to prolong their life. This lot of Win. brass is impressive, but as the base is ~.470" rather than the larger, Swiss dimension (~.495"?), you may want to check whether they eject from your K-31. They do from mine. ...Maven
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Cayoot
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21#
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Rank:none
Score:3
Posts:3
Registered:03/18/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/21/2005 06:05:30)
"Open the case mouth with a needle-nose plier, "
I use the special expander button from RCBS, it is made for resizing .284 Win to 7.5 X 55, It can, of course, also be used on regular 7.5 X 55 brass. I can't remember for sure, but I think the cost is/was about $7.95.
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Thanks From the Frozen Northwoods!
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of values."
--Albert Einstein
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waksupi
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22#
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Rank:none
Score:1093
Posts:1093
Registered:09/01/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/21/2005 07:19:38)
When you start reforming the .284 brass, chamber a few of them as you first size them. My first attempt, I didn't get them sized completely down enough to reduce the base, and couldn't get them fully chambered. I believe I ended up grinding a tad off the bottom of my die to be able to get it down far enough. Probably just an over cut die. But, this may save you an inconvienience down the road.
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Shooters Cast Bullet Alumnus
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Maven
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23#
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Rank:none
Score:360
Posts:360
Registered:10/01/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/21/2005 16:13:23)
Waksupi, Thanks for the tip! I'll try some of these later and, if necessary make the necessary adjustments. ...Maven
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Bob_S
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24#
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Rank:none
Score:148
Posts:148
Registered:09/21/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/21/2005 21:36:51)
Before you modify a die ... if you can't get the reformed 284's to chamber, a likely cause with the K31 is that the shoulder of the case is "springing back" after sizing. Anneal the necks and resize again. This lowers the yield point of the brass and the shoulder will be set back and stay there. (Don't anneal the necks before you form the cases ... you may end up with collapsed necks/shoulders)
You may get some slight interference at the base in a M1911 series if the chambering reamer was well-used. Smoke the case to make certain the interference is at the base of the case before you do anything Draconian to the dies. I have an unusually tight Lg1911, and 284's have slight interference just above the cannalure ... so slight that I don't even feel it unless the firing pin is on half~safe, relieving the mainspring tension.
Resp'y,
Bob S.
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jsh
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25#
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Registered:12/24/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/22/2005 02:18:28)
Ditto to what Bob said. I had been using the lee dies, finally jumped on a set of RCBS and a lot of my problems went away.
I could FL the 284 in the lee and they were tough to chamber on a bout 50-60%. Used the RCBS 7.5x55 I picked up a while back and the problem seems to have disapeared. Also I can partial size with the RCBS, where I had to FL with the lee. The lee die does expand the 284 brass some what better than the rcbs, because of the long tapered decaping/expander ball.
If lee would make their sizing dies a smidge smaller and their molds a smidge bigger......................
Jeff
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Maven
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26#
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Rank:none
Score:360
Posts:360
Registered:10/01/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/22/2005 02:29:06)
Ric & Bob_S, I tried chambering the reformed .284Win. brass in one of my K-31's and had no problem at all. In fact, I kept the FL die about 1/16" away from the shellholder as per my 7.5 x 55mm brass (so as to leave a slight "shoulder" on the neck) and it chambered as slick as could be. Annealing after annealing is always a good idea. And Ric, Bob's right about not altering the die as I have two different sets of 7.5 FL dies and one works the brass more than the other. If annealing doesn't work for you, then consider modifying it or buying a different brand of die. ...Maven
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elbStJoeMO
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27#
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Rank:none
Score:158
Posts:158
Registered:02/17/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/23/2005 23:51:15)
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kcso912
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28#
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Rank:none
Score:429
Posts:429
Registered:12/17/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/24/2005 18:17:14)
From Graf's withing 60 days they will be receiving a LARGE order of PRIVI brass.
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jsh
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29#
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Registered:12/24/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/24/2005 20:48:46)
Reply to : kcso912
From Graf's withing 60 days they will be receiving a LARGE order of PRIVI brass.
That is kind of the same thing my ex likes to tell only she says, the checks in the mail.............
Actually I hope so, as I need to send back some "new" brass that has issues.
Jeff
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Buckshot2
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30#
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Rank:none
Score:2726
Posts:2726
Registered:08/31/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/25/2005 06:34:57)
.................Wills, thanks a bunch for that URL! That's great, brings back memories. The radio stations would play The 2nd Week of Deer Camp and My Rusty Chevrolet.
...............Maven, if you gotta laugh reading the lyrics you oughta hear them sing it! Cayoot has to be right, these guys are probably a gas.
....................Buckshot
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Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always
Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner
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YES, Castboolits.gunloads is currently down,,we are working on it
http://chat.parachat.com/chat/code.php if you want to BS and share the trials and tribulations.
