Most BPCR shooters seem to be of the opinion dipper casting produces better bullets. Have you talked to any of these people?

http://groups.msn.com/BPCR/messageboard

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In the course of loading for the 45-110 I got to talking to several BPCR shooters and they swore that dipper poured bullets were BETTER than from the bottom pour pots. I have both so this weekend I cast 50 from each in a 535 Postell Lyman mold. Dipper gave me 7 culls for wrinkles or weight and bottom pour gave me 6 rejects. All he keepers were as alike as peas in a pod and weighed within.5 grain which is a fussy as I care to be for hunting bullets. Does anyone have any opinions on this?

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Jim,

Does this surprise you? 

With a bottom pour you only have the weight of the lead on your sprue plate to fill the cavities as air escapes.  And because there is less lead than in a laddle, it cools and hardens faster than the laddle.  If it hardens before the air escapes you get a void.   With the laddle, you have the weight of a much larger sprue that "forces" air out faster.  And it stays molten longer.  That's the "theory".

Another advantage with a laddle, you can mold at a lower melt temperature than with a bottom pour and still maintain the advantage above.  This means your mold stays cooler and you can cast at a steady clip.  This of coarse is the argument.  Made less valid if other than steel molds are used.

I say that for bullets over 30 caliber, once you learn how to develop a rythum and if you have mold blocks that are vented well, you can mold so that no one can tell the difference.  But if I was using long bullets for caliber, below 30 caliber or 22s, I would probably go back to the laddle.  I just get less screw ups that way. 

So because I am screwed up in my casting technique, does that make the laddle superiority myth true?  Naaaa.  But because it is true for some people, it becomes gospel.  The biggest fly in the ointment?  The BruceB speed casting method.  While most people in the world are trying to slow the sprue hardening process to allow more time to vent, he is cooling it on a rag.  So there you are. 

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In the course of loading for the 45-110 I got to talking to several BPCR shooters and they swore that dipper poured bullets were BETTER than from the bottom pour pots. I have both so this weekend I cast 50 from each in a 535 Postell Lyman mold. Dipper gave me 7 culls for wrinkles or weight and bottom pour gave me 6 rejects. All he keepers were as alike as peas in a pod and weighed within.5 grain which is a fussy as I care to be for hunting bullets. Does anyone have any opinions on this?

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kcso912,  In the long ago, I had a Lee Production Pot and a Lyman furnace.  Though I could cast more boolits per hour with the bottom-pour equipment, I could cast more of what I call match grade per hour with the ladle.  Some of my moulds prefer what I call the "slop-pour" method for best fill out, and that is much easier done with the ladle.  Having been privileged to see BruceB in action, I may have to break down and try an RCBS furnace one of these days.  Bruce casts a trainload of QUALITY boolits in short order.  Who knows?  I think casting is a very personal undertaking, as much art as science.  curmudgeon

Decades ago I did an article for, I think, Wolfe Publishing on dipper vs bottom draining furnace.  I've long forgotten the exact figures, and I didn't save a copy of the article, BUT those tests clearly showed that you get more visually acceptable bullets per hour from a bottom draining furnace.  I haven't used a dipper since.  I think Wolfe reprinted that article in their book the Art of Bullet Casting.

The last time I cast with my 457122 (Gould hollowpoint) mold was before I got a Lyman Mag-20 bottom dripper.  Last week I got the mold out to cast a bunch, and was very disappointed in the quality I was getting from my normal bottom pour technique, which is holding the mold on the rest with gap of a half inch or so between spout and sprue.  I tried pressing the mold up against the spout as you would with a dipper, and the quality of bullets immediately improved.