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Lucreti
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Re:
Arguments about Him-that square circle
02/07/2012 8:59 PM
God then has no more significance than a square circle or unicorn and would mean no ore tan demons and gremlins as primary causes. He'd depend on natural causes so as to be only a secondary cause in effect!
Divine intent reflects superstition, only one spirit behind Nature as reduced animism whilst full animism means the many behind the forces of Nature. Theists use the one spirit but it fulfills no real function. Without intent, the supernatural cannot be a force in Nature. Or does one use the new Omphalos argument that nevertheless, He influences matters, albeit He deceives us ambiguously as John Hick in effect claims with his epistemic distance argument so as not to overwhelm our free wills to enter into a relationship with Him. No, Nature reveals no divine intent and thus no such ambiguity. Hick is that ever-ready rationalizer!
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Guest
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Topic Theism- reduced animism= superstition!
02/03/2012 7:28 PM
Lamberth's argument from animism is that theism is merely reduced animism, animism behind one spirit instead of the many of full animism, and just as superstitious! Supernaturalists can rail against this finding, yet it applies per Lamberth's teleonomic/atelic argument. How could it matter,without special pleading, to find the one anymore meaningful than the many? Oh, the one means the Primary Cause and the Ultimate Explanation whilst the many replace natural forces. No, that won't do as natural causes and explanations themselves are the primary cause and need no more an intent than do natural forces such as the wind. God can hardly add anything other than the personal explanation that William Lane Craig and Richard Swinburne allege needed to explain matters fully in that He had the choice of determining outcomes of natural causes for what we see around us. No, science pellucidly responds with no, randomness and natural necessity accounts for those outcomes. Had the dinosaurs not disappeared, the cooling-off period and flowering plants had not arrived, neither would we have arrived nor any comparable species. Science finds no intent behind natural phenomena so that why should any rational person think that any such species as we just had to arrive? That personal explanation is just superstition! No, belief in the supernatural is just as sensible as belief in a rabbit's foot! What do you maintain about this new argument?
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Lucreti
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Re:
The presumption of Humanism
01/30/2012 10:05 AM
However, whilst this is objective morality in the sense of everyone seeing the consequences, it is also a wide reflective morality in the sense that each person has her own moral sense that she has to refine,yet this very subjectivism has two objective elements: it applies to all- universal and it requires equity and equality of treatment.
The Platinum Rule requires that I ,as a rational being to be consistent and not special plead, that I treat others nice as they ought to treat me.
Yes, as John Hospers notes, in "Human Conduct,." some persons lack that moral sense, and. I add, or just won't refine it to extend beyond the "tribe."
Hospers favors Ayn Rand's egoism, but that fails. This one is universalistic.
We agree to this covenant-covenant morality for humanity- the presumption of morality- as the fulcrum whence we debate morality as scientists debate science. This overcomes moral relativism. We who urge human rights work with those nations who don't respect those rights, but through honest debate and -pressure come to respect it. Therefore, this is universal, applying to all societies so that no begged questions ensue.
Religious morality stems from the simple subjectivism of men of yore- a wrong-heades one! Allah and Yahweh are moral monsters! Some people ahve a decent simple subjectivism.For more on wide refelctive subjectivism [my term], read John Beversluis's "C.S. Lewis and the Search for Rational Religion," whence I found that paradoxically both objective and subjective morality can intertwine.
As with deontological ethics, it a teleological one has rules and makes for virtues.
What is your moraiity?
Anon, I'll treat how others find this consequentialist ethic wrong-headed.
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Lucreti
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Topic Igtheism/iignosticism/theological noncog...
01/11/2012 5:22 PM
This igtheist finds no referents for God. Lamberth's teleonomic argument alone rules out divine intent to eviscerate any argument for His intent, and so wihout any referents thus as creator,designer, moracle monger and such, He cannot exist as Himself.
The argument notes that as science finds no intent behind natural causes and explanations, then He lacks referents , and to posit Him as having intent contradicts instead of complementing science. Thus, theistic evolution is an oxymoronic obfuscation!
He has such incoherent and contradictory attributes that again, he cannot exist!
We strong atheists then have no obligation to traverse the Cosmos or have omniscience to declare that no God exists!
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Lucreti
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Re:
The problem of Heaven
01/11/2012 4:56 PM
jess,2134, yes!
God has such little self-esteem and self-acceptance that He indignantly calls for people to give him hosannas continuously!
And people rationalize about why the permit for evil1 Alvin Plantinga uses the unknown defense reason, but that is nor more than an argument from ignorance.
" Logic is the bane of theists." Fr.Griggs
http://fathergriggs.wordpress.com
Google morgan-lynngriggs lamberth for my other blogs. I welcome thoughtful commentary!
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jess213
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Re:
The problem of Heaven
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Re:
Arguments about Him-that square circle
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Guest
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Re:
Arguments about Him-that square circle
09/23/2011 6:01 PM
Lamberth's genetic argument argues that supernaturalists themselves with their arguments from angst and from happiness-purpose give the evidence that their arguments rebound to their wish for Him!
Carneades's argument notes that supernaturalists beg the question of directed outcomes in their teleological one.No intent but rather teleonomy-causalism- mechanism- rules!
Carneades of Ga. is the guest so far.
Any dissent?
http://buy-bull.posterous.com
http://lordgriggs1947.wordpress.com
http://fathergriggs.wordpress.com
lordgriggs1947 on Twitter
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Guest
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Re:
Arguments about Him-that square circle
08/10/2011 7:53 PM
For God to transcend the Cosmos, He cannot then be omnipresent, and were He omnipresent, He'd be no such personal being we'd fathom but an impersonal one with whim we could not have a personal relationship! And as noted, He cannot transcend the Cosmos in the first place!
Were He timeless and transcendent, His intent would not run in the Cosmos,because intent must be immanent. And as noted, His intent could not run here anyway!
And without a brain, having no body, He couldn't have intent anyway, because intent depends on mind!
This purported divine intent would, granting it, would make for backwards causation, the event before the cause, the future before the past, negating time!
Such intent would prevent scientists from altering matters to get different results. Natural selection and randomness would be so irrelevant. We or a comparable species would have had to evolve rather than what science pelludicly proclaims!
That affrims what the atheologian-physicist, Victor Stenger notes that the running of the Cosmos would be quite different than it actually is!
No ,no intent from a disembodied mind exerts itself in the Cosmos.
Carneades would find all this God-talk specious! He'd find Prof. Irwin Corey a much better expert in theology than any theologian!
To find otherwise blasphemes reason and-humanity!
We should rise above the supernatural and the paranormal superstitons, what the eminent Paul Kurtz calls " The Transcendental Temptation," a delicious book.
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Guest
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Re:
Arguments about Him-that square circle
07/16/2011 10:05 PM
The superstitious claim that should we want to avoid angst and have happiness and purpose we should look to the Lord. No evidence exists for any of that! Both the arguments from angst and from happiness-purpose ignore reality.
Therapy can help us deal with angst and find happiness; we're responsible for our own purposes.
Albert Ellis in " The Myth of Self-Esteem" and Robert Price in " The Reason-Driven Life" reveal how to have that more abundant life without the crutch of the religious superstition!
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Re:
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Re:
Arguments about Him-that square circle
07/02/2011 2:25 AM
It's much easier to udrnesatnd when you put it that way!
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Guest
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Re:
The problem of Heaven
03/02/2011 7:29 PM
Allah and Yahweh as evil themselves cannot be that loving God, and the problem of Hell adds tremendously to the problem!
We are not sinners deserving of that punishment for any reason. Only a pathological mind can defend such irrationality and -immorality!
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thalesi
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Re:
The problem of Heaven
02/13/2011 8:01 PM
I now call this Fr.John Meslier's problem of Heaven as he uses it. He was a atheist whilst also a priest. He didn't reveal his atheism until his dismise.
Alvin Pllantinga, as usual, errs in his dismissing the logical problem from evil in using the unknown reason defense, which is just an argument from ignorance and would turn morality topsy-turvy, blashpeming morality and- humanity!
We don't have to be omniscient in fathoming that no reason can exist to exonerate Him,were He to exist. Oue own sense of morality prevails!
Viewers, what do you contend?
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Guest
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Re:
Arguments about Him-that square circle
01/16/2011 7:55 PM
Enter the arguments from incredulity and from ignorance of the supernaturalists. They find it rather incredible to find order and regularity and natural laws inhering in Nature, so the respond with that argument from ignorance that why, of course, God!
The-pre Socratics are way ahead of them!
Supernaturalists pose Leibniz's colossal blunder why is there something with nothing as their argument from incredulity and respond with that argument from ignorance- why, God made it!
How could there ever be nothing as the law of conservation of matter-energy holds that neither can they be created nor can they be destroyed, stemming from the quantum field of energy as David Mills recounts in " Atheist Universe" and Leonard Mlodinow and Stephen Hawking tell us how gravity plays a role in what Quentin Smith tells us is Existence's self-causing from phase to phase.
Why find it incredible and then needing the argument from ignorance that order and regularity and natural laws inhere in Existence? The law of motion denies Aquinas's argument from motion.
Why find the pareidolias of intent and design when only teleonomy-no planned outcomes and patterns rule with those two fallacies?
Theologians just have to make those two implicit fallacies in their arguments for His existenc, adding other fallacies explicitly. Faith doth that to people!
"Logic is the bane of theists." Fr. Griggs
http://carneades.blogger.com
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Guest
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Re:
The problem of Heaven
01/03/2011 7:18 PM
Karen Armstrong, historian-theologian, avers that apophatic theology of the Eastern Orthodox churches brings us closer than does cataphatic theology of the West. That theology declares that He is neither this nor that, and thus we ignostics[ igtheists] find that incoherent, and thus He cannot exist!
Cataphatic theology declares that He has certain attributes like omnibenevolent, omniscience and omnipotence, but those turn out to be incoherent and contradictory, and again thus,He cannot exist.
Ignosticism pervades all arguments for and against Him as we naturalists dismiss those for Him, affirming those against Him such that thus as He has no referents as that Grand Actor in History [ blessing America and saving Jewry ( Ah, that Holocaust!), Grand Designer and so forth.
Viewers, please add your views here, making also new threads on the supernatural and any scriptures.








