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Title:Is the Medal name Important to you?
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Is the Medal name Important to you?

The results will not be used to determine policy. It is a simple exercise to take the pulse of our members and supporters.
It must be a Victory Medal(23)
It must be designated a Campaign Medal with VA preference!(32)
Any Medal recognizing the Cold War is Okay.(100)
I don't care about the Medal. I'd rather have a Day of Rememberance and a monument(3)
Paul V. Dudkowski
Charter Member, ACWV
US Navy, 1973 to 1978
"Dedicated to the Cause"
Date Posted: 02/08/2008 12:44
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I have already recommended that said medal be called The Cold War Medal, the name speaks for itself.

                                                                               WILLIAM P. BOYLE
                                                                                N.J. State Director

Date Posted:02/08/2008 20:27
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You've come this far, why just settle on "any Cold War Medal"?
Date Posted:02/11/2008 11:29
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Because it's better to build a house a foundation than on open ground.

Get the medal, any medal. (foundation)

Then get the VA benefits. (the walls)

Then change the name later. (the roof)
Joseph J. Clune
Date Posted:02/11/2008 21:27
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not only the medal
but also(and more important)the certificat on the name of the veteran
we don't remember the day's , only the moments
Date Posted:02/13/2008 19:43
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And for those of you that you that might wonder about the validity of the poll, it will only let you vote 1 time!

I feel, it should be a Cold War Service Medal, that is what we have called it, that is what we should stick with.
just my opinion...
Of course that opinion and $4 will buy you a gallon of gas...maybe???
Date Posted:02/14/2008 10:24
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Opps... it would help if I signed in... I forgot that I cleared Cookies again! that was me on the post above this one.... 
John J. Weaver
US Army 1975-1978
USAR (inactive)1978-1983
Date Posted:02/14/2008 10:38
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      My 2 cents,

     I agree it should be a service medal not a Victory medal! Like our opinions really matter. lol





      Bill
      Semper FI
Date Posted:02/14/2008 14:31
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With "just any medal", it will be a long cold day when that issue will be qualified for VA Benefits and or other.  DoD sets the qualifications for designated war time service and issues what it deems to be the appropriate medal for that service.  The VA (if you go to the VA's home page, therein clearly it shows that designated war time vets get the first call for servicing. ) DoD provides the designated list of war time actions, which the the VA prioritizes as first to be served.  If you believe otherwise, give it a shot and see what happens, if your not a designated war time vet.  Clearly on this issue, the DoD and VA do communicate.  There are 26 votes of this poll for "any Cold War Medal" Everyone certainly has the right and need to vote as they so chose, it's what you served for; this or any other issue.  It's your hard earned right.  Not Cold War Service Medal or any Cold War Medal, but Cold War Victory Medal will get you everything you want, it's what I thought and believed the other CWVA and the American Cold War Vets were striving for.  If you don't have "VICTORY" designated in that medal, you have lost, for "VICTORY" means a war faught and won and the right kind of entitlements you so richly deserve.  It's no secret the VA Budget is stretched, but only due to insufficient funding which has been the Bush Administration's hallmark for the last 7 + years.  Guns or butter, boys, that has been the issue re: VA.

I would just say in closing; be carefull for you wish for, for you just may get it.  I hope this organization will continue it's fight for the Cold War Victory Medal, it's worth fighting for and if you receive it, you will not be sorry for it.  We have to keep at it and make DoD honor us.  DoD has a duty to do so.  The ACWV Organization needs to show DoD that it is DoD's duty.

Thanks
Date Posted:02/17/2008 14:32
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Nice poll; great pie chart too (gotta love those pie charts! - Paul, you must be some ex-economist [heh]). Anyhoo, I went with the "any medal will do" option; I'm more concerned with Cold War folks (and the Cold War itself) receiving proper military recognition than with securing benefits, at least at this time.

USMC_Kinda_Guy
Date Posted:02/18/2008 09:24
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Proper military recognition is dependant on wether or not you recieve VA benefits and your earned entitlements because that is tangible and measurable.  All honorably discharged vets are worthy of and should be treated equally.  VFW, American Legion and AMVETS are supporting you!!  If one is interested only in any medal, then, the certificate should be just fine for that supposedly recognizes one's service as well, along with the civy postal worker, polictican, DoD civy employee and a host of others.  Look at all the wasted money congress blows on individual earmarks, eg; $230Million for a "bridge to know where", just one example, 2006 earmarks cost the tax payer (you & me) over $11 Billion bucks.  Earmarks are used by the politicos' as a "defacto" re-election methodology.  Why in the hell settle on something less than what you earned.  Oh yeah, another $9 Billion plus for African Aids Epidemic.  Is that another "we'll stop it over there" chime?  Didn't work.

Gentlemen, until the Cold War Vet starts getting more vocal and demanding, I seriously doubt if anything happens on the CWVM.  

I respect your right to have and express your opinion on this matter, equally I respect my rights, too.

Thanks
Date Posted:02/18/2008 12:09
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I went campaign medal with VA preferance.  What good is a medal if it don't get you recognition through benefits as a reward?   The question here is if this were to ever go through as a campaign medal, what kind of stipulations would they tag it with?  Ok, you get a campaign medal only if you served 180 days on active duty in Germany or ok, everyone serving those years of 1945-1991 get campaign cold war medals, but not for reservist with under 6 months of active duty?  
So, I go for the campaign medal with VA preferance for all whom served during the cold war regardless of what capacity, because, I am in that lower capacity and I sure would like to stick it to the man. 
Date Posted:02/19/2008 08:10
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  As a member of Tactical Nuclear Missile teams in both Germany and Korea from 68 to 71, I feel that it most assuradly WAS a war, and thankfully, nobody pushed the button. If it came to it, I KNOW my teams WOULD have, and perhaps, that is exactly WHY the other side never forced us to that point, though you DON'T want to know how close we came in Korea when the EC-121 was shot down.
 It was the kind of dedication to duty that drove us practise in a clearings in the forrests at three in the morning, in a blinding snowstorm in January in Germany (many times, many units), the impressed upon the Russians, that in spite of their numerical superiority, we would take that war machene of theirs, and turn it into noble gasses in a nuclear fireball if required to do so that kept them on their side of the line.
 If it was, in fact a war, then we won it, holding them off untill they fell apart from within.  That being said, it should be a "Cold War VICTORY Medal".   Brie
Date Posted:03/11/2008 13:31
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Gentlemen and Ladies,


I just felt that I needed to weigh in on this issue. The naming of the eventual "Cold War"medal is significantly important and not a trivial matter. "Word-smithing" is the lifeblood of the politician and the naming, type, and award criteria is what will either garner more support, or cause us to lose support. Many people over the years have debated what we should call the medal, or whether a new medal should even be sought after, and though I respect everyone's right to honestly debate the issue and to voice their own opinions, I will again lay out for everyone why the drive for the "Cold War Victory Medal" was initiated and why most veterans, veterans groups, and politicians, support this incarnation effort over other medal creations.


Forgive me if this is elemental, but we have to start with the basics first so we stay focused. First we have to start with the question we want answered. The question posed originally was this:


"Military veterans participated in an organized and comprehensive United States led civil and military operation to oppose Soviet led communist aggression and expansion from 1945 through 1991. This operation was known as the "Cold War". With the objectives of the operation successfully achieved that culminated in the collapse of the communist Soviet Union, what type of official recognition can the military veterans who participated in the operation expect to receive from their government?"

The "operation" was rightly coined the Cold War in 1945, because it was in fact, a war. War is defined in many ways, but one Webster's Dictionary definition fits the conflict best:
 "
a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism; a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end." Further, Webster's defines the term "cold war" as follows: "a conflict over ideological differences carried on by methods short of sustained overt military action and usually without breaking off diplomatic relations."


 Ironically, there were many "hot war" campaigns held "covertly" and with the assistance of proxy powers on both sides of the Cold War. Some have posed the theory that Congress must officially "declare war" for a state of war to exist and therefore try to limit veteran's benefits and recognition to only those "official wars". Again, the irony in this thinking is apparent in the way veteran's recognition and benefits have been authorized by the United States. Most people don't know that 2 of our nation's most bloody armed military conflicts are not considered "official wars". They are the half-century long "Indian Wars", and believe it or not, the American Civil War. If this line of thinking were held correct, then all of the 2,500,000 brave soldiers and sailors who participated on just the Federal side of the Civil War, and the over 360,000 of them who died as a result of their service, would not be entitled to any "war service benefits" today.


In short, there is tons of research available to support the case that the Cold War was an actual war by definition and the veterans who served, fought, were wounded, are still reported as missing in action, and who have died as a result of the war, should receive proper military recognition and benefits.


So the question remains, what type of military recognition is available and customary for military veterans who serve in our country's wars?


To answer this, we must first understand the awards and decorations system of the U.S. military. It has been the established custom of the United States to award visible and uniform wearable items of distinction to its soldiers, sailors, and airmen since the first award created by President George Washington in 1782 called the "Badge for Military Merit". It was only given to 3 soldiers. We know this award now as the Purple Heart.


Since that time, this precedence has evolved into the current awards and decorations system. There are two main types of individual uniform wearable military recognition for war time service: The "Service Award" and the "Merit Decoration". Merit decorations are exclusively given to individual service members for individual acts of merit or valor and are always given in medal form. Service awards come in the form of service or campaign medals and are given for honorably completing terms of service. By this distinction, recognition for Cold War veterans to be most effective and in line with established precedence should be in the form of a service award and not an individual decoration.


So, what type of service award would be most appropriate?


Beginning with the end of World War I, the nation at this time was also not sufficiently taking care of the veterans who served during the war and many veterans were left languishing on their own, poor and in ill health. In 1919, veterans decided to fight for benefits due them for their service and began to form veteran's organizations to lobby the government for action. The result was the creation of the U.S. Veterans Bureau, the forerunner of the Department of Veterans Affairs. With the creation of the "V.A." came the associated bureaucracy to determine which veterans would be eligible for which benefits. The United States had found itself so taxed by its involvement in such a large scale and global conflict, and in order to "leave no one behind" it began the precedence of awarding a new type of "Service Award" specifically to denote our nation's unity with our allies and our combined victory. The World War I Victory Medal. The awarding of this medal authorized the new "V.A." to provide service members with due benefits.

It is also significant to note that this award was created by an Act of Congress at the urging of the newly forming veterans organizations, and not by the President or the War Department on their own. This award did not duplicate any other campaign or service award of the time, but was authorized as a separate distinct award to all those who served during the time of the conflict, regardless of service area or whether assigned in an actual combat theatre.

The precedence was further cemented into the military's awards and decorations system on July 6th, 1945 when Congress enacted the legislation to create the World War II Victory Medal. An interesting note for the criteria for this award as it relates to the Cold War is that the official awarding period to all service members is from 7 December 1941 through 31 December 1946.

 The ending date is significant because one of the Department of Defense's opposition points to the current criteria for award of any Cold War medal is that it would duplicate the award of already created service awards. Technically, they would be correct in this assumption that any criteria for a service award for the Cold War would have to start officially no earlier than 1 January 1947, as the period of service from 2 September 1945 through 31 December 1946 is already covered by the World War II Victory Medal.

With the creation of both Victory medals and the new "V.A.", the precedence was set that provides the bureaucratic framework that Cold War veterans today have to work within for recognition.

Technically there are no official campaigns designated for the Cold War, since it was a "cold war", and even though there was actual war and armed conflict during the operation. Like both World War I and II, there are campaign medals and devices authorized for particular service in designated campaign theatres for the hot wars contained within the overall Cold War operation, however, unlike the earlier wars, the Cold War to date, does not have a corresponding Victory Medal.

The result to Cold War veterans who did not serve in one of the hot war designated campaigns is that their Cold War service and contributions to our nation's and our allies' victory over Soviet Communism goes unrecognized appropriately. Unlike the veterans of both World War I and World War II, the veterans of the Cold War who served their country honorably and provided a victory to our nation's people go unrecognized for their service.
          The V.A. is promoting a new program called the "Veterans Pride Initiative" that encourages all military veterans to proudly display their medals earned while serving their country on national holidays and special events on civilian clothing. If our government wants our participation and our support, I would ask the V.A. and the government officials if they want Cold War veterans to pin the piece of irrelevant and nontraditional form letters known as the Cold War recognition certificates on our uniforms and civilian suits.   

          The government created bureaucracy that was instituted by them in order to provide benefits to our nation's military veterans is now being used against us to deny the creation of any Cold War medal. You see, because of the intertwining of medals and benefits, creation of any medal that officially recognizes our Cold War service would mean that the government would have to officially provide benefits to those veterans, and that costs money. Since they cannot create an appropriate medal without providing the appropriate benefits, the government and the Department of Defense bean counters would rather keep denying the veterans and their families who chose to sacrifice and serve their country honorably in a time of great tension and world conflict the traditional and visible recognition they deserve for their victory. They would rather save a benefit-buck and try to look good to their superiors for their bottom line.

                What they fail to recognize however, is that their superiors are really the voting citizen soldiers of this country and their supporters.


                In conclusion, the best and most appropriate form of Cold War recognition for military veterans is the Cold War Victory Medal. Nothing else encompasses the total Cold War operation and the service of it's veterans. Benefits may or may not be provided with that recognition, but that is really a separate debate.

Thanks for listening.
David Fofanoff




(Message edited by AIRCAV1ID On 05/20/2008 14:10)
Date Posted:05/20/2008 13:48
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David, thank you for your very insightful and well informed statement and support of the CWVM.  I agree.

jim811, Protectae Venimus (We Came To Protect)
Date Posted:05/20/2008 14:24
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Date Posted:05/20/2008 14:26
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I want a NAMED medal, not just a National Defense Medal or an Armed Forces Service Medal.  I want it NAMED as a COLD WAR VICTORY or SERVICE MEDAL.  I think it should allow an OVERSEAS Clasp or device.
LIFE MEMBER OF VFW, AMVETS, AFA
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH !!"
Date Posted:05/20/2008 15:05
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Dave,

That was very well put, and after reading it, I concur, "Victory" is the way to go.
Joseph J. Clune
Date Posted:05/20/2008 16:28
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David, very well thought out and spoken exactly the way we all feel. Just any medal will not suffice. A "service" medal is not what we are looking for either.

It must be "Victory" medal, and yet as you so eloquently spelled it out, it does run into opposition in DOD,

and as it would appear, also in the Senate.


We ALL need to continue our letter, email, phone barrage to our members of Congress. If every member were

to contact their elected officials at least once a week possibly the deluge would convince Congress that we

are indeed serious and speak with one voice. Give us a Cold War Victory Medal.

Ask them all to cosponsor S.1097, although that bill does not spell out if it will be serice or victory. That is something that will have to be addressed.

If that fails, ask each and everyone of your elected officials to have a provision inserted into the NDAA 2009
authorizing a "Cold War Victory Medal".


Jerry

"And so the greatest of American triumphs... became a peculiarly joyless victory. We had won the Cold War, but there would be no parades."
-- Robert M. Gates, 1996
Date Posted:05/20/2008 16:40
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David one of the most important points I feel you have added was what defines CONFLICT I belive posting this on our page would be usefull as well our use to slay the term "Peace Time" and the myth Cold War Vets were not shot at !

Next I belive is a key point what the status is on 407,000 Cold War Veterans is, KIA,MIA and POW over the 46 years of the era ?

Also an important point is the Cold War Era Overlap giving the excuse that Awards for the period being on hand for commanders (WWII,Korea & VietNam as well smaller ) should this mean we have to be more date sensitive and have a time frame excluding them ?

Next was Obama,s staff bringing up the benifits question when I had asked about excutive order to issue the Cold War Victory Medal as well no follow up by them, leaving me to wonder where that leaves Cold War Veteran given the fact John Edwards had committed to doing so  ?

I strongly belive BENIFITS as you noted may have this medal on hold and where politics have spent Billions everywhere except when it comes to Veterans as a whole, the issue then becomes about holding this back from not wanting to pay the price of having the people whom show up to defend over the willingness to spend it on those who stayed home ?

Guess thats why Stop Loss,Felons and allowing an age increase,multi tours and not taking care of those in curent service durring or after injury keeping them on the line, is a statement (use em and lose them) this on going push to prevent those whom showed up away from benifits is on going and non stop.

My question is why ?

Glen
Date Posted:05/20/2008 21:40
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But why must we be "MIND READERS"?  If this fails or that provision fails, maybe whe should do this, or maybe we should do that?
......I think this is wasteful and takes way too much time.  If anything, address in future coorespondence to senators, or congressmen that we are proposing this particular medal, and to please provide an input to which NAME this medal is given, would have a better chance in passing.  Perhaps they would be forced to think more about it.    
Date Posted:05/21/2008 03:23
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I do not think you will ever see a Cold War "Victory" Medal.  Perhaps a service medal or a campaign medal.  The word "victory" would really rub it in to the former Russian and Warsaw Commies.  Somehow our government is trying to make amends with the Russians.  (Not that I care about the former Communist nations).  So by issuing a victory medal would just infuriate Putin.  Maybe you care.  Maybe you don't care.  But I think that is one of the main reasons the DoD is totally against issuing this medal. 
Date Posted:05/22/2008 17:35
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I still feel its not cost of the medal as much as the benifits tied to it and the question then becomes were not the bennies from service not medals ?

Glen
http://acwv.newsvine.com[/URL]
Date Posted:05/22/2008 18:28
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Well,  the Russians continued to build their military under Putin with the resumption of bomber flights, moving their fleet into the Med, and spending much more money on defense.

His succesor will follow suit I am sure, and I do not really believe that Putin will not still hold the most power.

China has been building their military for years, and I do not think that a lot of that money will be diverted
to the earthquake disaster relief.

So now is the time to remined them that the US and our Allies did win the Cold War.  I dont think this would be rubbing it in their faces. They lost and history should show this. It is time to put the Cold War back into the history books, perhaps someone will think about it and not let anything like this happen again.

But then again, probably not, we are doomed to repeat histroy, no one seems to care or even think about right and wrong; good versus evil. The almighty dollar, or currency from any country rules. The have nots are
destined to be walked on and downtrodden.

Let us join our friends in Holland and all of Europe to demand that all veterans rom every country be recognized, remembered and rewarded with a Cold War Victory Medal.

Jerry
"And so the greatest of American triumphs... became a peculiarly joyless victory. We had won the Cold War, but there would be no parades."
-- Robert M. Gates, 1996
Date Posted:05/22/2008 18:43
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Great poll Jerry. Victory Medal is my first choice but either way the era must be recognized.

Sean P. Eagan
ACWV Public Affairs Director



http://cold-war-veterans-blog.blogspot.com
Date Posted:05/22/2008 21:30
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Maybe I am wrong, but I don't believe a medal is linked to VA benefits -- Title 38 US Code defines the "periods of war," not the issuance of a medal.  Example -- the Korean War was defined as lasting until January 31, 1955 -- but the last day for the Korean War NDSM was July 27, 1954.  Yet if you were sworn in on January 31, 1955, you have "wartime service."
Date Posted:05/23/2008 17:32
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I wouldn't worry about the Russians' sensibilities.  They have a Cold War Service Medal for their submarine personnel.  Plus the commies actually struck a medal to celebrate the "Liberation of Berlin."  They got ahead of themselves a little bit on that one.  Brings up the fact that we are hitting the 60th Anniversary of the Berlin Airlift.  Atleast the U.S. struck a medal to celebrate that important victory in the Cold War.  But, it was not named a "Victory" medal.  We will probably not see that term.  Pushing for a "Victory" medal as opposed to a campaign or service medal, will lead to increased opposition from DOD and Dept of State.  Again, I will be satisfied if a medal with "Cold War" in its title.  Something generic will not give the Cold War its rightful place in military history.




(Message edited by JIM WELLER On 05/24/2008 07:08)
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Date Posted:05/23/2008 17:46
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Call it Cold War Service Medal.  We all know whom the victors were.
Date Posted:05/24/2008 07:45
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Agree with Jim Weller's statement - "I wouldn't worry about the Russians' sensibilities." As stated above, the "Victory" aspect would more likely to cause a lot more opposition among the State Department and the "Blame America First" glitterati crowd (probably one and the same people - heh!). Excellent points throughout this most excellent thread; kudos to all involved in posting.

USMC_Kinda_Guy
Date Posted:05/24/2008 10:47
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The DOD is currently awarding the GWOTSM or Global War On Terrorism Service Medal at the same time it is awarding the Iraq Campaign Medal, Afghanistan Campaign Medal, National Defense Medal, and GWOT-Expeditionary Medal.  I envision a Cold War Service Medal taking the same status as the GWOT Service Medal.  The Global War On Terrorism is going to last decades, just like the Cold War.   Just like the Cold War had major hot theaters of combat or major operations(Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Berlin Airlift, Cuban Missile Crisis, Berlin Crisis, etc), so will the GWOT (Iraq, Afghanistan, OEF Philipines, OEF Africa, etc).  We might see time during the GWOT where there is no major conflict and the National Defense Medal might not be issued, but the GWOT Service Medal continues to be issued.  There is a strong argument for a Cold War Service Medal to mirror the GWOTSM.  The DOD could not argue against its own practices.

I have served in the Cold War (Pacific and West Germany), Balkan Conflict, SWA (Kuwait), Iraq, and Afghan Campaigns.  In my three decades of military service, the greatest accomplishment that I have seen was the defeat of the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union.  We need to continue our joint fight in giving the Cold War its proper place in history and military recognition with a properly named Cold War medal.


(Message edited by JIM WELLER On 05/25/2008 07:25)
LIFE MEMBER OF VFW, AMVETS, AFA
"PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH !!"
Date Posted:05/25/2008 07:24
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#30
 I agree Jim.
Date Posted:05/25/2008 11:04
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