DoD Personnel Boss Calling it Quits

I had contacted Dr. Stanley but never got a reply. I am attempting to contact his replacement Dr. Jo Ann Rooney
still awaiting the proper means to get to her.

Jerry

 This is the Office in the DoD that has the opposition to the medal. Beating a dead horse here. This is why we went to the White House on the issue. We are in holding pattern awaiting answers from WH. 

Stanley stood his ground on some issues and that's maybe why he is gone. The next office holder may be more freindly to the positions of the SecDef and Administration especially as they look to reduce entitlements even if they are earned.

Scott

SHe won't reply..

Well one more veterans day has come once more, frankly just not feeling it much more than the others somehow.somewhere I must of made a wrong turn, I joined not only that served in combat arms MOS's was said to have served a war era ?

Yet somehow I missed being in the first & now the second Greatest Generation WWII & GWOT so umm where the Hell did we go wrong, Korea/Vietnam, prior as well after ? for over decade after decade when WWII came to a close, untill the Towers came down I joined a bunch of deadbeats ? ? ?

As I said not feeling much like a veteran so I went online to spend 50+ dollars thinking next veterans day a new hat that reads Air Defense as well Pins for Engineers & Infantry might give folks the idea that I like others did more than just twidle the thumbs or did we ?

Limited war was the new concept to keep it from being a global conflict thus the Cold War Era was born, active warfare aimed at the former Soviet Union & China did not exist , we were in other nations just to advise. the concept of MAD was just that only a thought not to think about ?

So I as well as others in Combat Arms MOS's were just some Nine to Fivers the full combat load of ammo was just for looks, the extensive training with live ammo, the abilty to kill if a line was crossed without direct orders done just so we could feel badass, look badass, just walk the walk ?

Hun ? well maybe I could be wrong yet have I missed something folks or have others, oh by the way while in D.C. for our May 1st meeting I kind of noticed it seemed some things are missing anyone know where the WWI memorial is. Civil war, Spanish American war hummmmmmmmmmmm did I miss a bunch of something once more ?

Seems like some are much more Veteran than others like I said new hat & pins just to let the public as well those other Real Veterans know that there were others, so funny that the REMF's of the other service are so busy with CYA they have been at the forefront asking folks like myself to support this,that then the other veterans issue serving their needs, yet when it comes to getting 25 K from them to convince the Whitehouse to pass the Cold War Service medal or even those other veterans some ghost just lip service same as some in politics ?

Now am I the only one to hear the crickets once more, as for seeing the medal it will be long past any chance for my seeing it I don't have that much gas in the tank to travel the distance needed and down the road Shakespears memo is the reminder,. I wonder when the hat & pins will show up, oh well guess I will have to carry around the Cold War Cert, DD214 as well a picture/pictures of when I was serving, anyone got some pins ?

Oh by the way I am not angry just disapointed, did others miss so much or was all that was done durring the Cold War Era just a dream ?

To all those that served thank you even if some forgot others served also & of them some gave all, while those like myself gave some just as you have.

In the meantime I have a project to remember a three tour Vietnam Vet, as well other war time vets that were KIA,MIA & POW  so do not look to me to sit around in a puddle folks still much to be done & Monday it is back to Remembering those..

PNV

Glen, thanks for posting a topic I can talk about without getting upset.  I do think you make a very good point about Combat MOS's vs. Non-Combat MOS's. Like you in the 71st ADA, I too, in the 517th had a Combat MOS. That is a very interesting situation that has been overlooked, certainly by me, because I always made the assumption, that MOS was "a given" and should have been known by anyone who wished to know.  Your 71st and my 517th continue to be carried in the Army's CARS (Combat Arms Regimental System) and have never been "reflagged" to my knowledge.  They remain as a CARS Unit, primarily due to their combat history and honors earned.  Pity, the VFW and American Legion don't consider a Combat MOS as qualification for their membership, but as usual, I expect too much from others.

jim811
Protectae Venimus

 

Further Glen, I have read some time ago, wherein DoD has always set the combat priority standards to the VA, if that is accurate, then it would seem the DoD is in contradiction to their own position, to the extent some Combat MOS Vets qualify for VA  Medical Benefits and some do not. In my case and like many others in the ADA we were the Army's only combat operational unit(s) in CONUS.  That is a fact that has always been ignored and miss-understood by many, primarily I believe because so many are steeped in the infantry tradition, perhaps.  The profound enormity of manning a very complex missile battery with prime load capacity has never, never been full appreciated or understood.  Like The Cold War, so many have never understood, that many of us fought The Cold War not always by shouldering a rifle, but like you and I we fought with missiles, some conventional loads, some prime loads.  The front lines we manned were different, just like there is a difference between missiles vs. rifles. The awesome responsibility launching a 40KT warhead had it's costs and stresses to many, but we would have toggled the launch switch and not think twice about it.  That was our discipline, nothing less.  Anyhow, there you go.

jim811
Protectae Venimus.

Palms, Roger That!

jim811
Protectae Venimus

Jim811 yes as Scott pointed out Deployed In Place was and is what CONUS duty for some was a much higher standard, Just as Boomers, FAS & SAC to name a few, the Higher Training Standards, Duty Requirements that for those in Reserves such as Palms & others that were the spearhead of this nations first responce had Blazing Skies become the prelude to WWIII.

As for my feeling inferior it comes from those whom spent their time in the rear with the gear, durring a time when the  wars in Korea & Vietnam to say to the least of  the conflicts such as those overseas standing to that trained to defend areas from Terror & Insurgent attacks that were not serving durring approved dates of service where awards might only have come if any had the personal died in a non covert action, while those who found ways to accumulate awards that have let them join Legion,AMVETs & VFW were in CONUS with the true few exception of those who truly risked life or limb have taken advantage from that.

That is the injury to those of us that risked much or the very least something much more than they had or ever have, then becomes the insult from them demeaning those of us using those same medals & awards as proof their service being better, how strange it is that those who are true Combat Vets have been the least to throw that in my face as well damn sure not to do so in public unlike like those few that give me more questions of not only how they have the medals, question so many braging to be Airborne,Ranger,Recon that far excede Marine,Navy or Air Force Units that perform special duties just the percentage to be found { not only on } Military,Com leads folks to think they are the only people that served.

Most of those found here or public, like a veteran that I talked to at Concord, N.H. do not push special service or demean others service they like this man simply say I was supply or infantry, just a Marine or Airman a Sailor in time one finds out they served on a Boomer or SAC they see folks like Jim811 or Palms as equals even with the inter service jabs & jests.

We all knew that we had to have each others six, that protecting this nation came first, as for medals I do not recall anyone I served bragging about trying to get them or even having them our B.C. was a Vietnam Vet who became an O from battle field promotion, HHB Commander even Gen. Cannon never talked about their awards it was about the duty, being the best, being ready.

Best example is the three tour Vietnam Vet that never spoke down to me Doug never talked about his awards ever to me and like the men he served with looked out for Veterans even those like me. I have more than once come across those who said they would and will not ever allow veterans like myself in their VSO's { my personal feeling is that no matter if it passes } they will protect the home turf over what may be voted by fellow members, right or wrong it is how they feel.

So the mindset of my service was/is better falls under being convinced or the fear that those unlike them may find out the hollowness of their true service, remember what happened to the National Legion Commander when combat veterans questioned the awards, well some in a Commanders Postion as well others share that fear as well, that it could be the same fate .

Only two of the biggest VSO's truly welcome our kind the third I feel is only paying lip service, they have the least of reasons for doing so, may explane why the others show so little fear about having our kind all the while that VSO's has never made public the result of having a vote and keeps pointing to Congress as the reason they cannot change the charter.

The DAV is exempt the only requirement is/has been injury or illness incured while serving, as for the minor VSO's they have valid reasons to limit membership that they are up front about, using dates is not the excuse they use as they have no need to make them.

It simply boils down to some folks thinking their service is better and finding reasons to push other veterans to the side thus allowing and provide the publics conception that the entire Cold War Era with the few exceptions { Korea & Vietnam ) was peace time also remember that both those were called Police Actions as well not called Wars, so sad from all that was done to them the Korean Vet { Forgotten } the Vietnam Vet dumped on as well dismissed, both failed with the politics supporting the public mind set that made it so.

The truth I feel is that from WWII up to today has been the Greastest Generations for this nation as well as the Revolutionary, Civil & WWI eras, shame that Ken Burns shall become victim to the politics as much as the public has been little do they know just how much was done durring that entire era, maybe when Iran has Nukes people will see that the time frame has been as I said, where the military never failed the nation, the politics has and IMHO it failed both as well still is doing so.

The most important point the Cold War Era was like WWII a victory as for our Heros serving today if there is a failure in Iraq it came from politics not the military, just as now when a certain General was fired for speaking the truth when the Afganistan leader said they would turn on our troops if Pakistan had need to go to war.

Money pissed away in Iraq & Pakistan just using a 1/ 100th of a percent interest rate alone from that, would  pay for each and every one of the vets that served in the Cold War as well all other medals issued, to include paying for Purple Hearts to the vets that die from agent orange.

I do wonder just what percent could pay for all veterans health as well those serving in all our armed forces today  to include the family as well the needed medications ?

Like I said the politics, the mindset of being better than others are the negitives that have costs that fragment veterans the nation, the politics, the people and some day we will not be able to afford to pay, it is not just about money folks Iran with Russia backing their actions then China are the high price in the future, unless this nation gets back to placing commond goals as the best for our future.

Last { yup I know at this point you folks are thanking God } their is, never was an I in WE THE PEOPLE this nation has never been perfect it only allowed the freedom to right those wrongs that went against the commond welfare of the nation, thus the Civil War, the marches done to give women the right to vote, desegregaton, the graduated tax, unions and most important Freedom of speach that allows us to say { right or wrong}, { PC or not } the most outragous remarks that should only be used as color for the rest of us to talk backwards.

IMHO fanactics are to be heard in order to only provide the spark to think on, followed not an idea for the best, the world has enough over history to learn from,the bad examples they have given are the proof, one of the many reasons others not only came to this nation yet still seek to become citizens of, we need to get back to that to find out how to stay We The People once more.

PNV

From All Parts We Came

Well, it appears once again I may be responsible for straying from the original point of this thread.  Sorry about that, however, Glen and Palms; each of you contribute largely to stimulating many thoughts on this forum, which I appreciate.  We can all agree to disagree from time to time and no one ever gets 100% of what they want.  In consideration of every possible wish we would like to see realized; all of who served honorably in my humble view should remember and appreciate those times in our lives and associations.  Some of us received medals and honors and some of us did not, but all of us, in spite of everything have an Honorable Discharge for service to our country, well done.  Some of us may wish for proper recognition (I do) and are disappointed; but perhaps we should be more proud than disappointed.

jim811
Protectae Venimus

About that honorable discharge, just think about it for a minute.  How many people receive that?  Many don't serve in the first place.  Many that do make it into the service drop out either in boot camp, trouble with the law, physical reasons or hardships with drugs, alchohol.  Of those, how many actually end up with honorables?  There are 5 types of discharges.  Only one of them is an HONORABLE discharge.  Those that have it should not take it lightly.  An honorable discharge you carry with you for the rest of your life.  Sometimes I wish that it held more weight and many people that never served will never understand the meaning. 


(Message edited by 29Palms On 11/12/2011 08:23)

All veterans of the cold war were ignored, could it be many of today's politicians who arose in the 60's are somewhat cozy with socialism, not to recognize the struggle with communism and the denial of it's threat is denying history. 

Here is a little something I found while surfing. This sums up what Glen and Jim were saying. It was at during a
ceremony in New Bern, NC

Major General Thomas Braaten, retired from the
U.S. Marine Corps, said it best when he remarked that veterans are all
different, yet all the same.

Guest speaker Braaten said: “they served in
different times, they had different weapons and equipment, they had
different skills, and were all different people.”

However, Braaten said they all pledged their lives to their country, they all swore to defend and support the Constitution.

“They gave prime years of life for their country; they left their families behind and endured strange conditions,” he said.

Braaten said if he could say something to all veterans it would be “thank you.”

 For the complete article http://www.newbernsj.com/news/veterans-102000-braaten-ceremony.html

Jerry, Thank You for posting the General's comment.  It's interesting to note that "fighting Generals and Admirals" always seem to know what the General stated.

jim811
Protectae Venimus